Environment Committee on Sept. 16th, 2024

[Martin Bouchard]

We feel that the human aspect is not being considered. We understand the situation, and we don't want to pit humans against other living species, but we think that humans are totally forgotten in the whole equation.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mrs. Chatel, the floor is yours.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Indeed, we cannot separate humans from the environment. The Conservatives have such a poor understanding of science. I would invite them to read the scientists' report on caribou. I think everyone here, except perhaps the Conservatives, would agree that we cannot have a healthy economy without the infrastructure that supports it being healthy as well, and that includes green infrastructure.

As Mr. Bolduc said earlier, the solution for the caribou includes rethinking the forest and the forestry industry. In fact, a number of the forestry companies in my riding are already at that point. The Conservatives definitely have a somewhat archaic approach, especially when it comes to science. At the end of the day, I think the industry and the workers are already there. There was also a lot of talk about the Canadian Sustainable Jobs Act. I think we all have the desire to move together, to move forward, not backwards. The voice of workers is often the voice of wisdom.

Mr. Duceppe, you were talking earlier about the fact that the Government of Quebec has not responded despite the commitments to find solutions made by both Quebec and Canada at COP15.

In your opinion, what concrete changes would be necessary to protect not only the sustainability of the jobs of the Canadians and Quebeckers you represent, but also our natural infrastructure, including caribou habitat? What do you think the solutions are?

[Yvan Duceppe]

I will yield the floor to my colleagues, but first I want to clarify one thing. Yes, we need healthy biodiversity. The caribou issue, in our view, is a symptom of a much bigger problem rather than a simple problem with the caribou. I'm not saying that the caribou situation is not serious. I'm just saying that our forestry workers are seeing that the forest is changing, and we have to do something.

Our industry is currently very involved in the issue and is thinking in the short term. We know that caribou are affected, but I still want to mention one last point. As we move forward, it is important for workers, entrepreneurs, communities and everyone who lives on the land to define the solutions to be applied. If we can't do that, we'll be in trouble.

I don't know whether Ms. Ménard or Mr. Laflamme, who is with me, can add anything to the answer to the question I was asked.

[Isabelle Ménard, Union Advisor, Confédération des syndicats nationaux]

I can answer first.

Good morning, everyone.

Good morning, Mr. Chair.

I would just like to add one thing to what Mr. Duceppe said. I would remind you that, in Quebec, there was a very important commission, the Coulombe commission, which—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Just a moment, Ms. Ménard. Mr. Longfield seems to want to say something.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I can't understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I was just speaking to the clerk about that. I don't believe the sound quality is sufficient.

Unfortunately, Ms. Ménard, the sound quality is not good enough for the interpreters to hear your comments and interpret them. I don't know if it's a microphone issue. Apparently not. Unfortunately, we're going to have to move on. I don't know if Mr. Laflamme wants to answer for you.

[Julien Laflamme, Policy Advisor, Confédération des syndicats nationaux]

Is the sound from my microphone okay? Perhaps my colleague has time to adjust her audio settings while I answer the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Actually, time is running out.

Could someone answer the question quickly?

[Julien Laflamme]

I can answer it, Mr. Chair.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Actually, Mr. Chair, I would like to follow up with Mr. Duceppe.

Mr. Duceppe, you said earlier that workers wanted a job in the forestry industry not only today, but also tomorrow. You said something very important: If we don't rethink the forest and the forestry industry, there may no longer be any jobs in forestry tomorrow. That's what we have to think about.

We're all part of the same biodiversity. You said that the caribou problem was a symptom of a larger problem. It also affects us as human beings. Our existence and our environment are at stake.

What concrete solutions are available? What are you saying to the forestry industry to encourage it to change?

I would like to know what Mr. Duceppe and Mr. Bolduc think about this.

[Yvan Duceppe]

I will be brief, and then I will yield the floor to Mr. Bolduc, since he has not yet had a chance to answer you.

The important thing for us is long-term planning for the use of the resource, which is fibre. For fibre to be used properly, its value must be maximized.

Historically, plants in Quebec produced two-by-fours. However, we can use the same fibre to create added value, so as to ensure the sustainability of the wood industry over the longer term.

[Denis Bolduc]

If I may, I will also answer the question.

We completely agree with the statement that the importance of maintaining biodiversity cannot be denied. That seems obvious to me. However, in the current situation this emergency order is to apply to, we get the impression that workers are being forgotten. Basically—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you. Unfortunately, I have to cut you off there.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

I thank the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Bolduc, I'll let you finish your answer, because I'm very interested in it, but first I want to commend the union representatives on the presentation they made. It is always said that unions only look after their members, but I think their presence here and their comments on biodiversity show that unions also have a social mission, and I wanted to acknowledge that.

Mr. Bolduc, my colleague Mrs. Chatel's question was very interesting. You started answering it, and I'll let you continue along the same lines.

[Denis Bolduc]

I was going to say that, fundamentally, we're advocating for a dialogue for a sustainable forest.

Over the past few years, the forestry sector has experienced a number of crises, including the caribou protection crisis, as well as last year's forest fires. There are also ad hoc crises related to softwood lumber. The strategy cannot simply be to redirect people to employment insurance if they lose their jobs. These people need to be supported.

We are calling for the federal government to do everything it can to foster a dialogue for a sustainable forestry industry.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you for the answer.

I think the first nations representatives also advocated for a round table or a partnership, as did the Quebec Forest Industry Council. The Bloc Québécois leader also spoke about this idea at a press conference held exactly a week ago.

If memory serves, it was Mr. Duceppe who said that there was a difference between consulting people and listening to them. The idea of social dialogue, which you and other partners have put forward, consists in a real dialogue taking place after such a meeting.

I'll make a comparison. During the deliberations to elect a new pope, everyone is locked in seclusion and we have to wait for the white smoke to come out. I think the same thing should be done with the various stakeholders—in other words, bring them together, lock the door and wait until the white smoke comes out.

That said, I would like you to tell us about sustainable jobs. Mr. Bolduc, you are right to say that people can't simply be given employment insurance benefits. I can't remember if it was you or Mr. Duceppe who talked about the Canadian Sustainable Jobs Act. I would like to digress for a moment to say that it should be called the just transition act, since that is the term recognized by the UN. In Canada, the choice was made to obfuscate things a bit by choosing the Canadian Sustainable Jobs Act as the title.

In what way does this act not respond to a just transition situation in the forestry sector?

[Denis Bolduc]

If I understand correctly, the question is for me, right, Ms. Pauzé?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'll let you answer the question, but I'd like Mr. Duceppe to answer it, as well.

[Denis Bolduc]

Okay.

One of our criticisms concerning the Canadian Sustainable Jobs Act was that it did not address the just transition issue head-on. We spoke out against it when the bill was passed. Now that it has been passed, it could be used as a tool to establish what we are asking for, which is a dialogue that includes all the parties.

I think the newly established advisory committee, the Sustainable Jobs Partnership Council, could take us in that direction. In a social dialogue, we could provide the minister responsible with advice and recommendations aimed at promoting sustainable jobs.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Duceppe, do you want to add anything?

[Yvan Duceppe]

I won't add much, aside from the fact that it should indeed be a just transition act, as you so aptly mentioned, Ms. Pauzé. That's the first thing.

Second, we believe in working together. In our opinion, all stakeholders must be included, including those who will lose their jobs. For those people, this is their livelihood, as everyone has mentioned. It is vital to have a long-term vision for them. As we said, the government can't enforce laws that are going to scrap jobs—pardon the expression—without identifying a course of action. Everyone has to work together.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?