Environment Committee on Sept. 16th, 2024

[Dr. Justina Ray]

I used that in my remarks as well. It is a stopgap measure that's really intended to do enough to keep things in place but is not sufficient in the long term, so other measures will have to be put in place that are more systemic.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Of course, as everyone has mentioned, this is not about eliminating jobs, but about ensuring a balance between the possibility of making a living from one's job and that job being sustainable in the medium and long terms, so that future generations can benefit from the ecosystem as much as my generation and the previous generation could.

How do you think this balance can be created for the forest industry, especially keeping the protection of caribou in mind?

[Dr. Justina Ray]

The more that time elapses and the less action happens, the more and more difficult it is to achieve a balance, because the measures necessary for recovering caribou from a very diminished state become more and more costly. That is the very difficult situation we're in at present.

The value of having a scientific perspective on this is that it allows one to evaluate what it will take to recover caribou according to the goals of the province and the federal government. If it's considered that only half measures will be possible, then you can see whether or not the caribou will be able to sustain themselves under those circumstances.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay, thank you very much.

I now have a question for the representatives of the Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec.

You talked about the just transition. You alluded to the fact that the current government had introduced a bill mainly related to CO2 emissions, not to biodiversity. The recommendation you would make to this committee would be to have a similar bill, but one that also concerns the protection of biodiversity, in a context where the government is required to act and take measures. We know that the longer we wait, the worse it will be. I wish we could bury our heads in the sand, but that strategy does not work. We would just be passing the problems on to the next generation.

In your opinion, we should recommend that the government pass a similar bill, but for the protection of biodiversity. Did I understand you correctly?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 15 seconds to answer the question.

[Denis Bolduc]

My goodness, I would have passed the question on to Mr. Rondeau, but with only 15 seconds left, I think we'll run out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Pauzé for a minute and a half.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I have a minute and a half.

Earlier, Mr. Rondeau said that perhaps an impact study should have been done and solutions found based on studies. Unfortunately, we are not there. A lot of time has been wasted.

My question may be for Mr. Rondeau, Mr. Duceppe or Mr. Bolduc, for example.

What can we do now? What are your expectations?

[Patrick Rondeau]

As we said earlier, various departments are involved in this issue. At a minimum, an interdepartmental meeting should be held with the players involved—the forest industry, the unions and indigenous nations. That would be a good start.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Duceppe, do you have anything to add?

[Yvan Duceppe]

I will yield the floor to Mr. Laflamme.

[Julien Laflamme]

I think proactive action must be taken more quickly in terms of workforce training. There are few programs for recognizing prior learning and skills for people who are already employed, who already have some knowledge in their trade and who would like to train for a diploma in another field. Implementing such programs requires an increase in transfers to the provinces for training.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Boulerice.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Ray, you talked about how urgent the situation is in terms of the risk of boreal caribou becoming extirpated.

How would you rate the measures and decisions made by the Government of Quebec in this regard?

[Dr. Justina Ray]

Overall they have promised quite a bit of meaningful action—remember that the goal is self‑sustaining populations—but really the only significant measure they've put in is the monitoring program, which has been very robust. Otherwise they've promised a plan and a strategy for a number of years, which hasn't materialized, so overall it has been less than adequate.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Ray.

Mr. Duceppe, you talked about maximizing the value of the fibre. What could be done to move in that direction and increase the economic value of wood as an important natural resource in decarbonization?

[Yvan Duceppe]

Take a look at what has been done historically in Scandinavia, where forest management has been done more intelligently, particularly through a large production of engineered wood. We could do the same thing with our wood fibre. We can make beams. We're already doing that—I'm not saying we aren't—but we need to do even more to move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for three minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Bolduc, as you probably guessed.

Mr. Bolduc, can you tell us more about your understanding of the just transition policy?

[Denis Bolduc]

I will let Patrick Rondeau, an advisor at the FTQ, answer you, since he is an expert on this issue.

[Patrick Rondeau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bolduc.

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Godin.

It is a matter of replicating what is being done abroad. The European Union has the just transition fund, which has mechanisms and commissions attached to it. With a view to funding the industrial transition, essentially, and the decarbonization of the economy, everything is based on criteria that are considered to be fair and that focus on social dialogue, social protection—in Canada's case, this involves reviewing employment insurance—decent work, as well as labour law.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Rondeau.

Mr. Bouchard, the order states that private forests would be excluded. Wouldn't it be better to say that they will be excluded? With the conditional being used, there is some doubt. However, the lack of predictability makes things difficult for entrepreneurs.

What are your thoughts on that?

[Martin Bouchard]

We agree with you. A bit more assertiveness is needed in the desired direction of the order.

There is a lot of talk about global warming and climate change. The top scientists at Ouranos tell us that various species are migrating north. This is an ongoing phenomenon that must be weighed in the overall analysis that must be conducted to have a better overview of the situation. As to whether there has really been a decline, it's a bit unclear. In some situations, at least for the affected areas, and especially for Pipmuacan, we don't really have very strong comparative data.

In short, we are not experts in the area, but I just want to say that, at home, people are also asking questions about these considerations.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Bouchard, can you confirm that the three groups identified—those in Val-d'Or, Charlevoix and the other region that I forget—are Canada's southernmost?

[Martin Bouchard]

I am not a geographer, but we know that, in those regions, there is a lot to say. In Pipmuacan, among other places, it is—