Environment Committee on Oct. 7th, 2024

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Would you say that young forests, though...? When a forest company replants a forest and puts in new trees, they're more resilient to forest fires. Is that the case?

[Kate Lindsay]

Yes. Essentially, you want to manage the level of fuels—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

[Kate Lindsay]

—so reducing the fuels and replanting a forest will be more resilient, yes.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

You alluded to federal policies that are impacting wildfire risk, not just in national parks but outside of national parks, and you don't think a fire lens is being included.

Is the Species at Risk Act one of those policies? Is that contributing to wildfire risks in Canada?

[Kate Lindsay]

There is growing concern.

I've actually had the opportunity to fly over parts of Alberta, because I have been working on caribou recovery across Canada. There's growing concern that these older stands that have been set aside for caribou pose increased risk of burning, which will actually not be helpful for caribou recovery and not be helpful for communities that live in and around those areas. A fire lens is something that we are recommending.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Back in 2017, the Alberta Forest Products Association, in a letter in the Edmonton Journal, said it believed it would cost about $85 million to combat the mountain pine beetle. It specifically cited the pine beetle being allowed to run rampant in Jasper National Park.

What do you think the cost would be to the federal government to manage the forests in Canada's national parks?

[Kate Lindsay]

Are you asking what would it cost?

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Maybe you can send that to me in writing, because I only have about 30 seconds left.

[Kate Lindsay]

Okay.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

One of my Liberal colleagues said the other day that they didn't think it was really feasible to do active forest management techniques in national parks and that it wouldn't really do much to prevent fires.

Do you agree with that assessment?

[Kate Lindsay]

There's actually a video that has been made showcasing how Canfor was brought in to do some thinning. I think it was effective in saving parts of Jasper. If that could have been deployed in a larger area, that could have been effective for mitigation. It is possible.

I think it will take some cross-learning between park staff and commercial forestry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. van Koeverden, go ahead.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Ellis, thanks for joining us today at the committee.

Our colleague Minister Sajjan, the Minister of Emergency Preparedness, was here last week, as you're probably aware. Minister Sajjan assured this committee that coordination between his office and your office and his officials and your officials was consistent and steady throughout the horrible event this past summer.

It's kind of gross to talk about jurisdiction when we're talking about people's lives and livelihoods, but that's where we are, I suppose.

It's my understanding that with respect to the unified command, Alberta was at the table immediately, from the officials' perspective, and that Alberta was the first call from Minister Sajjan's office.

Was that your understanding this summer?

[Mike Ellis]

From an advisory perspective, yes.

Minister Sajjan and I worked very well together. It was that working relationship that worked very well for the people of Jasper and the critical incident we were facing at that particular time.

My comments are really only in reference to the command and the decision-making ability. We were only there in an advisory capacity; we were not there in a decision-making capacity.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I understand. Thank you, Minister Ellis.

[Mike Ellis]

Thank you.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Last week, I asked that the Parks Canada staff here relay this committee's collective sympathy and gratitude for all of the work that they did. Indeed, the work that was a collaboration between all of these various groups saved lives. I don't think I have to ask for unanimous consent in this committee, but I hope that you could express the same to your colleagues and staff. What happened this summer was a tragedy, but the preparatory work undertaken by Parks Canada, by your colleagues and by the ministers as well saved lives. Collectively, we'd like to thank you for that.

Mr. Gault, we've heard some conflicting reports regarding how well various levels of government and jurisdictions collaborated. We've also heard conflicting reports with respect to funding for wildfires in the province of Alberta.

Could you highlight for us, from the perspective of the employment of firefighters and teams of first responders, what we could all be doing better to ensure better-resourced personnel when it comes to both avoiding these disasters and responding to them?

[James Gault]

Thank you for the question.

What it boils down to in the province of Alberta is this: We have wildland firefighters who are seasonal. A lot of them are students. If you look back across the news, you can see that Minister Ellis said that we would be ready by March and then that we'd be ready by April. We were still not ready by May.

I'll point out that our wildfire staff make $22 an hour, with no benefits or pre-cancer coverage. Other provinces are offering it. It's similar in Ontario, which is offering a $10,000 signing bonus. If we look at this year alone, we didn't get the people who chose to go to Ontario for a $10,000 bonus and become a wildfire fighter there. We brought 174 people back from Ontario to help fight the fires in Jasper and across the province.

The government can say they are putting in $151 million, which they did, but that's over three years and goes towards tankers we can't use and towards helicopters we can't use when we're flying in smoke. It is not going into the resources on the ground, and that is what is needed. They are undervalued, underpaid and just not coming back.

I believe the government cut 247 positions in 2021, including 57 in wildfire management. This means that in 2023, we started out a serious year with no staff at all.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Okay. That's very clear. Thank you very much.

It's my hope that this government's Bill C-224 will help unify the inclusion of various cancers linked to firefighting right across the province, because I know that unfortunately there are provinces that treat various cancers differently. We know that when these heroes are exposed to those toxic chemicals, it's an employment-related illness. It should be treated as such.

Thank you for your work. This has been a tough couple of meetings for anybody who has ever spent time battling a fire. I talked to a couple of my friends who, after leaving sport, went into firefighting. This summer was very devastating for Albertans. I have family in Jasper, and it was a very emotional time. If you could also relay our collective gratitude and sympathy to the folks you represent, I'd really appreciate it.

The perspective of.... How we value and see biodiversity in Canada has also been highlighted by various academics and witnesses on this committee. With wildfires and natural disasters increasing, I think we have to step up as a committee and as a government. When we lose nature, we jeopardize a lot of things we rely on and take for granted. Those include clean air, clean water, flood regulation and climate regulation. In Halton, we rely on our conservation authority. I know that would relate to this.

Mr. Chair, if I may, I'll put on notice the following motion.

“I move that that this committee undertake a pre-study on Bill C-73, an act respecting transparency and accountability in relation to certain commitments Canada has made under the Convention on Biological Diversity; that to this end, the committee hold a minimum of eight meetings; that the committee invite the Minister of Environment and Climate Change Canada and officials; and that the last two meetings be dedicated to clause-by-clause consideration—

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

It has been emailed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You're not moving it.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

No, I'm just making a notice of motion.

—“and that this study begin within 10 days of the adoption of this motion.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. If it has been circulated, we can stop there. It's just notice.

We'll go to Madame Pauzé.