Evidence of meeting #124 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fires.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
The English, the non-interpreted version, is very tinny. Possibly if he spoke more slowly, it might be easier.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Mr. Liivam, please speak a bit more slowly and we'll see what happens.
Canadian Registered Safety Professional and President, Arctic Fire Safety Services Limited
Prior to the fire, Parks Canada ordered hydrants for Jasper with a thread on the side ports that was different from those used by all municipalities in Alberta and British Columbia. They had only seven hydrant adapters available in order to go from their thread to BAT, the British Columbia and Alberta thread. Our crew observed a Petro-Canada and a mobile trailer park burn down, but we could not engage due to being unable to connect to hydrants.
Our crew was credited by the captain of the Jasper Fire Department for saving what was left of the downtown because we were at a hydrant that had an adapter. We were able to engage impingements on buildings.
No secondary water sources were staged in preparation for hydrants going down. A lesson learned from past wildland-urban interface events is that it's normal practice to have water supplies pre-positioned.
Once it was confirmed that Arctic Fire Safety Services was deploying additional fire crews on behalf of an insurance company and a resort owner, our two engine crews were released from the Parks Canada response, with no explanation given. The structural protection specialist asked my crew lead, “Does Kris really have 20 fire trucks waiting in Hinton to come in?”
On the afternoon of July 24, I was contacted by a company based in the United States called RedZone. They undertake wildfire analytics and wildfire dispatching for insurance companies. They asked if I had resources that could go to Jasper for one of their clients.
I let them know that I had three type 6 engines, one type 7 engine and a tactical tender available to deploy. We were hired and tasked with protecting the Marmot Basin ski resort and the Jasper tram.
Shortly thereafter, I was contacted by their client, Pursuit Collection. I told them I was fully deployed. They asked whether we could find resources to protect their properties. I reached out to my other firefighting contractors, through a Facebook page, for oil field firefighters. By that night, I was able to assemble a fleet of 20 fire trucks and 50 certified firefighters, all making their way to Hinton. I even declined additional resources from other companies, as I felt we had enough to meet our response needs. These other companies included Safety First from Drayton Valley, Safety Boss from Edmonton, New Venture from Whitecourt, Superior Fire Control from Grande Prairie and Elite Oilfield Services from Clairmont.
On the morning of July 25, most of our crews were assembled at the Hinton UFA cardlock so we could convoy into Jasper. All crews drove through the night to get to Hinton for the morning. At 9:11, we departed the Hinton UFA cardlock and made our way to Jasper with the understanding from Pursuit and the Parks Canada liaison that we had permission to enter. We got to the first set of roadblocks west of Hinton and were denied entry at the order of Parks Canada incident command and turned around.
We attempted again to make entry to the park after we believed we had the issue figured out at 15:42, but we were once again denied entry. At 16:49, we were finally granted entry to Jasper Park. At 18:55, we got to the Jasper fire hall and checked with the structure protection specialist.
We split our teams up to do a hasty check of properties we were assigned to. We were not granted access to Marmot Basin, the Jasper tram or Maligne Lake Road. Of the properties we were able to access, none received damage. Of the properties we could not access, the Wilderness Kitchen was destroyed—an approximate value of $12.5 million.
We did not see any signs of active fire behaviour at this time. We returned back to Hinton. Our crews were exhausted from driving all night to Jasper, and they were morally deflated from not being able to help in time.
Throughout the Jasper fire, we encountered numerous examples of Parks Canada fire management actively obstructing our activities and not providing us with relevant information on the fire. We were provided with rules of engagement that we had to accept or be escorted out by park wardens. It was reiterated twice by a Parks Canada operations section chief, the second in charge to the incident commander, that we were not legally allowed to be there.
These rules of engagement included not being part of the incident management organization. Wildfire Defense Systems from Montana, which was hired by other insurers, was allowed to be part of the incident management organization. During the impingement and these rules of engagement, we were also ordered to not fight fire. We were denied access to Marmot Basin and the Jasper tram until July 29. It was clear that fire behaviour still threatened those sites, and our delayed ability to access those locations put the economic viability of Jasper at risk.
We were denied access to the Athabasca River or to the hydrant system, or to No Surrender and Fire and Flood Emergency Services water systems to get water for firefighting. We had to bring in eight 400-barrel tanks from Hinton. We had to bring in numerous truckloads of water from Hinton. The approximate cost to our client was $60,000 just to bring in water to fight the fire—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I'm sorry, Mr. Liivam, but we're really over time here. There will be opportunities to answer questions.
Mr. Flannigan, can you hear me?
Dr. Mike Flannigan BC Innovation Research Chair, Predictive Services, Emergency Management and Fire Science, As an Individual
I can hear you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Oh, perfect. Okay, we're in business.
Why don't you go ahead for five minutes, please?
BC Innovation Research Chair, Predictive Services, Emergency Management and Fire Science, As an Individual
I'll just note that the interpretation in English does not work completely, and I had to turn it off.
Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me.
My name is Mike Flannigan. I am the British Columbia innovation research chair in predictive services, emergency management and fire science. Yes, that's a mouthful.
I am honoured to be joining you today. I'm in Kamloops, British Columbia, the traditional and unceded territory of the Tk̓emlúps te Secwépemc people.
I was saddened by the tragic Jasper fire, the loss of firefighter Morgan Kitchen, the loss of homes and businesses and the emotional toll on people.
Fire management is challenging, and it's becoming more challenging due to the increase in extreme fire weather and fire behaviour. Extremes drive the fire world. In Canada, 3% of our fires burn 97% of our area burned. Much of this happens on a relatively small number of days with extreme conditions, dry fuels and hot, dry, windy weather. A warmer world means more extreme fire weather and more extreme fires.
What can we do to be better prepared for future fire seasons? First, FireSmart should be mandatory in high-risk locations such as Jasper. Otherwise, that rain of embers that can travel kilometres will find homes and businesses to burn. We need structural protection and sprinklers in place.
Thanks to an enhanced early warning system, we know when extreme fire weather will occur and we have a good idea when to expect new fires. We need to get more resources to those locations ahead of time, not after the fact. Even when conditions are extreme, an aggressive initial attack while the fire is still small will be successful.
One approach would be to develop a quickly deployed national wildfire fighting force that would work hand in glove with existing fire management agencies. This could include a national firefighting air fleet as well as ground firefighting crews. Instead of just copying what other countries are already doing in emergency management, we could be leaders by acting before the disaster strikes.
On prevention and mitigation, human-caused fires are preventable, and the number of human-caused fires has been decreasing due to things like fire bans and education. Managing the vegetation—the fuels around communities—can help reduce the likelihood of catastrophic fires.
Wildfires and other potential disasters are multi-faceted issues, and we need multipronged solutions. There is no quick fix.
There are many challenges, but we should explore options to be better prepared to meet current and future fire seasons. We have the knowledge and expertise in Canada to be world leaders in this field.
Thank you for your attention.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you very much, Mr. Flannigan.
Last but not least, we'll go to Ms. Elizabeth Potter from the Tourism Industry Association of Canada.
Elizabeth Potter President and Chief Executive Officer, Tourism Industry Association of Canada
Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to be here with you today.
My name is Beth Potter, and I am the president and CEO of the Tourism Industry Association of Canada, representing tourism industry interests at the national level from coast to coast to coast.
Today I want to highlight the increasing risks that wildfires pose to our industry and how we can work together to mitigate these risks. Every year, the threat of wildfires grows more acute, devastating communities across Canada, displacing residents, disrupting businesses and discouraging visitors. This past summer in Jasper, we were reminded of how these events continue to threaten entire regions.
For Canada's tourism industry, these events are more than just operational setbacks; they jeopardize livelihoods. Nature-based tourism, the core of many of our members' businesses, depends on the well-being of our landscapes. Wildfires don't just disrupt this; they put the very environments that draw visitors to Canada at risk.
The reality is that incidents of extreme weather are occurring more frequently across Canada, and their economic and societal impacts are far-reaching. We must strengthen our collective response to this growing challenge by developing a national wildfire preparedness plan. This would ensure that multiple sectors, including tourism, are better equipped to protect Canadians from the environmental, health and the job security risks that come with these incidents.
Wildfire management is a shared responsibility. The tourism sector is committed to working alongside government bodies at all levels, whether they are local communities or agencies like Parks Canada, to be better prepared for wildfire threats.
Coordination between fire management agencies and tourism operators is crucial. Real-time information sharing, emergency planning and public education will ensure that both visitors and operators are equipped to act under dire circumstances. This collaboration is already proving effective, and the tourism sector will continue to play its part.
Looking forward, the creation of a national framework that provides support for individuals and businesses after extreme weather events will be a vital step. This would allow communities not only to recover more quickly but also to reduce mental health challenges and business losses. With suitable support, people are less likely to leave their communities in search of economic stability, allowing for a quicker and stronger recovery.
We know that the increasing frequency and severity of wildfires are largely driven by climate change. That's why sustainable practices within our industry are so important. Parks Canada has highlighted how reintroducing fire to landscapes helps create healthier ecosystems. Similarly, the tourism industry is adopting strategies that reduce our environmental impact and contribute to the long-term resilience of the natural environments we rely on.
In line with the investments made in wildfire management across the country, we can continue to strengthen our collective efforts. Initiatives that enhance our ability to respond to wildfire incidents, such as the national fire equipment cache, are essential. By continuing to invest in infrastructure, training and public-private partnerships, we can ensure that communities and businesses have the tools they need to respond effectively to wildfires.
In closing, we have a real opportunity to strengthen our approach to wildfire management. It requires the collaboration of government, communities, fire agencies and industries like ours. By working together to build a national framework, to commit to readiness and to support effective communities, we can enhance public safety, preserve Canada's natural beauty and ensure that tourism remains a thriving part of our economy.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Ms. Potter.
We'll go to questions now.
Mr. Calkins, go ahead for six minutes, please.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses.
I'm just going to check. Mr. Liivam, can you hear me?
Canadian Registered Safety Professional and President, Arctic Fire Safety Services Limited
Yes, I can.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you for your testimony here. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the committee business that's been happening, but at the last committee meeting, we had the Minister of Emergency Preparedness say to this committee that he “left no stone unturned” in order to do everything he could to prevent the loss of property in Jasper National Park.
Would you agree with that sentence?
Canadian Registered Safety Professional and President, Arctic Fire Safety Services Limited
I would not.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
The testimony that you've given before this committee today is actually quite alarming. Can you just confirm to me that in a short amount of time, you were able to muster 20 fire trucks and 50 professional firefighters? Could you tell me what the qualifications of those firefighters would be? Were they fire-tested firefighters?
Canadian Registered Safety Professional and President, Arctic Fire Safety Services Limited
Yes. I did have 20 fire trucks and 50 firefighters. The majority of the firefighters I had were NFPA 1001 or 1002, as well as numerous firefighters who were wildland firefighters, either wildland firefighter type 1 or wildland firefighter type 2.
October 7th, 2024 / 11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Could you explain to the committee what that level of certification actually means? That's some fairly technical language. These are fully certified firefighters. You said that each of them has credentials and has experienced fighting fires before.
Canadian Registered Safety Professional and President, Arctic Fire Safety Services Limited
That's correct.
The NFPA qualifications are the same as any municipal firefighter's. This is similar to Calgary, Edmonton or any fire hall. The majority of the fire halls in Alberta do subscribe to the NFPA standard. The volunteer firefighters are trained to the same standard as a big city fire department.
The wildland firefighters are the same firefighters whose qualifications are recognized through ISFSI. The type 1 firefighter would be the government agency firefighter. The type 2 firefighter would be the contract firefighter.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
In your testimony, you said that the hydrants in Jasper National Park are not the same as the hydrants that are used virtually everywhere else in British Columbia and Alberta. Did I hear that correctly?
Canadian Registered Safety Professional and President, Arctic Fire Safety Services Limited
That is correct.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
You also said that there were only seven adapters available. I'm guessing that when you say this, what you're meaning is that for the adapter you would need to plug into the hydrants in Jasper, there were only seven of these adapters. I'm guessing that the Jasper fire trucks, the ones that are there all the time, are probably able to tie in.
In my experience of being a warden in Jasper, there are only a couple of fire trucks in town. I'm not belittling their fire service; I think it's a great volunteer fire service, like everywhere else, but anybody else coming to the community to help would be virtually....
They have seven adapters. Basically, seven rigs could tie in. Is that right?
Canadian Registered Safety Professional and President, Arctic Fire Safety Services Limited
Aside from their mutual aid partners that they rely on, such as Hinton and Clearwater County, any other fire trucks coming at us that do not have a normal working relationship with the Parks Canada communities will not have these adapters on board. This is not part of the common kit.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Okay. That's certainly a factor that isn't helpful, but you were able to muster enough vehicles to provide water yourself, as a contingency. You don't necessarily rely on being able to tie into a hydrant. Is that correct?