Evidence of meeting #135 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was biodiversity.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Minister, will you rule out raising the carbon tax by over $170 a tonne today for 2030?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I said this already, but I will say it again: No decision has been made on carbon pricing past 2030.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Minister, your government gave away $8 billion to megacorporations through the net-zero accelerator fund. Your government claimed that this would reduce emissions.
However, the environment commissioner revealed that over 70% of the companies received money without any commitment to reduce emissions. That's 70%, Minister. Since learning this, have you personally read any of these funding agreements?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
As you know, the fund falls under the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry. I would be glad to ask him to send the committee the results of the investments that were made through the net-zero accelerator fund. I don't have those data readily available.
November 27th, 2024 / 5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Minister, right in your mandate letter it says, “Support the Minister of Innovation, Science and...in the implementation of the Net Zero Accelerator”. It is actually your responsibility to monitor emissions.
Here, you have an $8-billion program, over 70% of the contracts gave no commitment to reduce emissions and you haven't looked at the contracts. You didn't even flag.... Did you even question that? Did you talk to the minister who was responsible?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
You're right that my mandate letter instructs me to support the innovation minister in relation to the fund, and that is what my department and I are doing. However, as I pointed out, the innovation minister is responsible for the fund, so he has all those details. We would be happy to provide them to the committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We actually have a meeting scheduled to discuss that.
Mrs. Chatel, you may go ahead.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Minister.
I must say, I'm a bit confused. Mr. Deltell was talking about the importance of protecting the environment earlier, but his party wants to get rid of the best tool we have to reach our environmental targets, carbon pricing. The policy has the support of conservative economists all over the world. I worked at the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, and economists agree that the policy is one of the most effective measures out there. What does the Conservative Party want to replace it with? Who knows. It's radio silence.
Earlier, you brought up the Pathways Alliance, an organization that represents the big oil and gas companies. According to the organization, investments in clean energy could help the companies it represents reduce their greenhouse gas emissions, which is what all taxpayers want, businesses and individuals alike. The Conservatives, however, voted against such investments in the main estimates. In his disinformation campaign against carbon pricing, the Conservative leader is attacking investments like those, which we need. I find it all very confusing.
Can you help me understand the Conservatives' logic? There must be some logic behind their position, or are they just being irresponsible?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I have to say, trying to explain the Conservative leader's thinking on this issue is asking a lot.
I didn't have this earlier, but I have in hand an article containing a quote from the new president of the Pathways Alliance, which represents 95% of oil sands production.
He said that reducing emissions from the production of oil is critical to the sector's future and that Pierre Poilievre's lack of clarity on industrial carbon pricing is jeopardizing the economic basis for the clean technology that provides the only viable pathway to do so.
That's not Steven Guilbeault, the environment minister, saying that. It's the president of the Pathway's Alliance, an oil sands consortium.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
According to Mr. Deltell, this is an important issue, and Quebec shouldn't be doing all the heavy lifting for Canada. However, the Conservatives don't want a price on carbon, and they don't want any investments made either. What is their plan for the environment?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Perhaps they think the situation will magically fix itself. Do the Conservatives have a magic wand hidden somewhere?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Maybe they've got some pixie dust up their sleeve. Honestly, I have no idea.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
I'd like to talk about what the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development had to say. The committee met with him to discuss his report. He said that Canada was on track to miss its 2030 emissions reduction target by 4%.
Can you give us more information on the progress Canada has made in recent years? What are you going to do to make sure we reach our target? There is a 4% shortfall.
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
The idea behind the plan we put forward in 2022 is that it would evolve over time. A number of new actions have been added, either investment initiatives or regulatory measures, to help us make progress over time in the fight against climate change.
The commissioner said that we needed to move forward with a cap on greenhouse gas emissions, and we have put forward draft regulations that do just that. Probably in the next few weeks, we will be finalizing the clean electricity regulations. Early in the first quarter of 2025, we will be focusing on the regulations to reduce methane emissions in the oil and gas sector by 2030.
That is how we are going to achieve our targets. Every year, we have to keep moving forward, supporting new measures and, in some cases, tightening up existing measures. That's what we did with carbon pricing two years ago. We strengthened certain standards after seeing that we could improve some of the things initially put in place.
We are a responsible government. I don't think we get everything right the first time, so it's important to change and adjust measures accordingly as time goes on.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Minister, why do you think the Conservatives are opposed to the cap on oil and gas emissions?
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I'm just speculating, but perhaps it has to do with the fact that the CEOs of a number of big oil and gas companies have put on fundraising events for Mr. Poilievre, the Conservative leader, on at least two occasions. I can assure you that they don't organize fundraisers for me.
Liberal
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Minister, my drift will be a bit different from Mrs. Chatel's.
Last year, the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development submitted his first report, in which he said that the measures taken by the government were not sufficient to reach Canada's 2030 target. He also said that the main reduction measures were delayed or had not been prioritized. This year, he said more or less the same thing.
Weren't you surprised by the commissioner's finding that nothing had changed in a year? Still, this year, he is saying that Canada is not on track to meet its targets.
Liberal
Steven Guilbeault Liberal Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
I agree with the commissioner that we need to do more.
Since last year, however, we have finalized the zero-emission vehicle regulations. We submitted the draft clean electricity regulations to achieve net zero, and we'll be finalizing them in the next few weeks. We also submitted the draft regulations on the greenhouse gas emissions cap for the oil and gas sector.
If you consider all those measures to be nothing, then I don't know what counts as something.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
The 2030 Emissions Reduction Plan: Clean Air, Strong Economy came out two years ago, and it doesn't set out any targets, deadlines or measures for reducing emissions.