Evidence of meeting #14 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you so much.
Just in terms of the other things that are missing from our greening government strategy—indirect emissions and these emissions from Crown corporations—if you were to compare with the rest of the greening government strategy, do we have a sense of what the percentage is that we might be missing? Is it the majority that we're missing?
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Yes, the majority are missing.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Commissioner and your team, thank you very much for the work you do. It really is appreciated by this MP, anyway.
I'm going to be referring to “Report 5—Carbon Pricing”. Did your audit find that the government's carbon pricing had a disproportionate impact on certain Canadians?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Yes.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Did this include Canadians living in rural, remote, northern and indigenous communities?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
We described the group, in terms of the examples we gave, starting at paragraph 5.70, as “Indigenous groups and smaller enterprises still disproportionally burdened”. I think I said, in response to an earlier question, that we didn't break down smaller and medium-sized enterprises, for example, into subcategories like agricultural and so on.
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
There would be many rural enterprises that would be small or medium-sized, yes, but not all of them.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Did this include low-income Canadian households?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
In the indigenous example, we talk about low-income households and indigenous people having a lower tax filing rate, because in the areas where the federal backstop applies on the consumer levy, you'd need to have a tax return to be able to get the cheques that are coming out in July now. It used to be on your tax return as a refundable tax credit.
Therefore yes, the lower-income and indigenous people, who have a lower tax filing rate, will necessarily disproportionately be burdened, because they aren't getting that rebate if they don't file.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
One of the objectives of the audit was to determine if the government's carbon pricing system was fair. If the government doesn't address this disproportionate impact of the carbon tax, what are some of the negative consequences on Canadians in these communities?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
There are several. One is that they'll be paying more than their fair share compared to others. Within the consumer levy, you could have disproportionate impacts, for example, on indigenous communities, and then across the two elements in terms of the large emitter program at the federal level, the OBPS, so across that as well as the consumer-based carbon levy. There are two types of fairness there, within and across.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Then it's disproportionate on affordability as well, probably.
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I don't think we talked about how that affects their net income and their individual balance sheets, but it's a question of fairness in terms of how much they're paying vis-à-vis others.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Okay.
As you know, the government is raising the carbon tax to $170 a tonne despite promising not to. Has this government assessed how this significant increase will impact Canadians?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I think the departments here are silent. When you have questions for the department, maybe they could answer directly.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
I guess I'm referring to paragraph 5.67. It's right in the report. It basically summarizes that aspect.
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
As of the date of this audit, we had found that they had not assessed the effects of the price increase from $50 to $170. I thought you were asking whether they have done that since the audit period. You could direct that question to the department.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Okay. This is from just looking at your audit.
