Evidence of meeting #26 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was electricity.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:30 p.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
When it comes to support for the deployment of renewable energy, how would you say Canada compares on the international stage? Are there specific examples of countries that you think we should be looking at?
5:30 p.m.
Canada Research Chair in Urban Planning for Climate Change, Associate Professor in Geography and Civil Engineering, University of Victoria, As an Individual
Canada did pretty well with the feed-in tariffs, but then a lot of those programs and a lot of the contracts were cancelled, which is unfortunate.
A few places that are leading.... Vietnam had one of the most rapid uptakes of renewable energy, starting with solar photovoltaic and then wind. This was because of the alignment of a whole range of regulatory, economic and knowledge support incentives. It had the most rapid uptake of renewable energy ever seen, I think, in a really short period of time.
The European Union is now moving forward with a new understanding of grid distribution by looking at something called renewable energy communities and energy communities. This is looking at things like microgrids, virtual power plants and the clustering of tech in different communities.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I've been waiting for a while to respond to Mr. Duguid's question about an energy corridor from Manitoba back over to Alberta. Perhaps we could get one from Alberta all the way to the east coast and to the west coast, so that we can replace some conflict oil and help our economy so that we have the money available to develop new resources and new resource concepts, as we've been talking about.
On a more serious point, Mr. Bradley, the question is on charging stations. A Tesla going from Edmonton to Calgary last winter, when it was -40°C, made it halfway on a full charge. It had to stop. It couldn't charge outside. It had to go inside in order to charge enough to make it the rest of the way. There is a long way to go in order to get to the stage where consumers who don't live in a city are going to say, “Maybe this is something we might try and might consider.” However, when a government puts a full blanket ban that simply says, “That has to be it; we're not going to sell any more”, there are concerns and issues.
When we talk about electricity—and you would be the one who could tie into this, as you're the distributor of electricity—could you supply us with the full life-cycle costs of each of the energy sources that we plan on using in the future and compare them to those energy sources that we presently use?
In 15 to 20 years, we're going to be replacing all the windmills and all the solar panels. We're going to be dealing with those types of technology changes. We have issues as far as oil and gas are concerned, as far as nuclear is concerned and as far as building dams is concerned.
Who looks at the amount of energy that is used to implement and produce each and every one of these energy sources that we either have or plan on having in the future?
5:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electricity Canada
Thank you for the question.
Those kinds of determinations are made in each of the jurisdictions. Each jurisdiction has a different approach to it. Some provinces have integrated resource-planning processes. Some provinces have an independent system operator that is charged with undertaking those sorts of studies.
Yes, on the life and the life cycle of some of these generation sources, we don't know yet and, indeed, we're going to have to see. We're used to building technology that lasts for decades and decades. In the case of some of our hydro plants, we have hydro plants that were built in the late 1800s on the Niagara River that are still operational today. Now, they've been upgraded, and they continue to be upgraded on an ongoing basis, but we don't know at this stage if that is going to be the future of wind generation and if what occurs in wind generation will be a changing out of some of the parts.
The same is true of other new generation sources as well. We just don't know yet. We don't have enough experience, but there are responsibilities in every jurisdiction to undertake those studies and make those determinations.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
On what I mentioned first about the electrical grid and being able to get energy from Canada around the world, we see what is happening in Europe right now, where their industrial heartland is being completely undermined by the fact that they need to make sure they have enough electricity to keep their people going for the winter. That is the biggest concern. Unless we are prepared to look at all possibilities and to use what we have, which in Canada is an energy source that the whole world is still using.... I really think it's important that we try to find the right mix so that eventually we are able to help fund those renewable energy sources.
Do I have much time, Mr. Chair?
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thanks, Mr. Dreeshen. I appreciate it.
Mr. Longfield is next.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Bradley, we've had a lot of testimony today around the complex nature of electrical distribution. Provinces and territories and indigenous communities all have standards that they operate under. The federal government has some role to play—and could play—in terms of harmonizing some of the standards, but that then needs approval by the provinces and territories.
This clean tech study that we're working on has electricity as one of the key areas where Canada could advance clean technologies. There are things like the combined heat and power operating in Japan or the Energiewende program in Germany that's operating successfully.
We have some challenges constitutionally. Could you maybe talk about how your industry is trying to bridge some of the challenges to harmonizing that we face?
5:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electricity Canada
Yes. Thank you for the question.
As a representative of a national association essentially representing an industry that is principally provincially based, this is what we do. We spend the bulk of our time trying to bridge those divides. As a country, we've been successful in the past at having federal and provincial co-operation in areas that are principally a provincial responsibility.
As you know, as a country we've been quite successful in some of these endeavours in the past. If you look at the challenge that we're facing as an economy to get to net zero by 2050, this challenge is probably as great as it was when we wanted to introduce universal health care. We should be thinking of it in those kinds of terms: in terms of requiring that kind of effort.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
We see this through carbon pricing and the disagreements with the provinces and even going all the way to the Supreme Court to try to fight over jurisdiction on that.
If you have any other comment about what we could include in our report in terms of the importance of Canada working together on this, go ahead, and then I'll turn my time back to the chair.
5:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electricity Canada
If we have additional comments, we'll provide them in writing.
Thank you.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, witnesses, for your very clear, definitive, expert and experienced opinion in the area. I'm sure your testimony will be extremely valuable for the report that the analysts will be writing.
With that, I would ask for a motion to adjourn.
5:40 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.