Environment Committee on Sept. 20th, 2022

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Ms. Jackson, you mentioned the importance of attracting investments into clean tech. How can we create a more investment-friendly environment for clean tech in Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have about 10 seconds. I'm sure you know the answer.

[Jeanette Jackson]

I think it's tax incentives to attract more private capital. That would be my 10-second response. That's not easy, but....

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No, that's a good answer. Thank you.

I'm sorry that we have time constraints. It's unfortunately the way it is around here sometimes.

Ms. Thompson, you have five minutes, please.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

I'd like to focus on hydrogen. According to Natural Resources Canada, Canada is one of the top 10 hydrogen producers in the world, with three million tonnes of hydrogen produced annually.

My question is for Ms. Jackson, and then I'll certainly circle back to Mr. Moreau once Ms. Jackson is finished.

The first question is, how did Canada become a leader in hydrogen technology?

[Jeanette Jackson]

For anyone to become a leader, there's usually a scenario where there's waste hydrogen. In this case, there was waste hydrogen and people were figuring out how to collect it and turn it into something valuable. That is my understanding of where the starting point of hydrogen innovation came to light.

Then, when they're figuring out where we can actually apply the hydrogen, that's where more innovation happens on the demand side. On specific manufacturing and production industrial sites, hydrogen is an output of the process, and that's where a lot of the innovation has come from. Now we're looking at non-industrial sites and at hydrogen production within communities and stuff like that.

Usually, there's just an environment and some waste product. Someone has to turn it into something valuable and, boom, you have a market.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Continuing on that thread, I wanted to reference the Canada-Germany hydrogen alliance in August 2022. I was so pleased to be there. It was incredibly exciting. Is Canada on the right track to ensure continued leadership in this area?

[Jeanette Jackson]

I think we're on the right track. Canada is probably one of the most well-positioned countries to provide clean energy security for many countries around the world. We have the expertise in “how” through our traditional energy sector. Let's use that expertise in “how” to transition to providing, exporting and, of course, using internally—most important is domestic adoption—those clean renewable or green energy sources.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

What lessons from Canada's success with hydrogen production and hydrogen fuel cells production can be applied to other types of clean tech?

[Jeanette Jackson]

That's really interesting. There's important learning between sectors. I'll give an example. We did a hot water reclamation project for the resource sector in Alberta. There was an opportunity to take that technology and apply it to some mining applications across the province, into B.C.

Sharing best practices and technology competencies between industries is something very important for us to look at. You don't need to start from scratch in each sector. Let's see what's working in other sectors and apply it horizontally across each sector.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

Mr. Moreau, would you like to comment on any of the questions?

[Vincent Moreau]

Let me just say something briefly about hydrogen.

The challenge with hydrogen production is transport. It will take a lot of investment in research and innovation to produce hydrogen that is truly green, that is, with a zero carbon footprint. Transport always involves challenges in terms of logistics, costs and profitability. So an investment component should perhaps be provided if we want to remain leaders in hydrogen production and application.

In terms of green hydrogen, it is always better to have a short route, that is, local production and consumption. If other sectors of the economy can be decarbonized and if there is a viable solution for hydrogen transport, this might be an area of interest. It will not happen overnight, but it could be achieved in the long term.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

Following those comments, Ms. Jackson, I'll go back to you and how you began this session, talking about how we need to move across multiple sectors. I look in Newfoundland and Labrador and can see what's happening around water, wind, minerals and technology. It's quite incredible how, for a small province, we've been able to move forward in a number of different sectors toward greening solutions.

Can you go back to some of the ideas? How do we use the opportunity and work across multiple government sectors—I believe municipal and provincial—as well as in a global space? How do we dig in and start moving clean tech forward, understanding that we have 2030 and 2050 deadlines?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, we're out of time.

[Jeanette Jackson]

I had something really important to say, too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You could always email some comments to our clerk.

I want to thank the witnesses for a very interesting discussion in our second meeting on the topic. Again, please feel free to send written comments if you want to add some commentary.

We'll now have a very short break to welcome the next panel.

My question for the committee members is, would you be okay with going 10 minutes over, past 5:30?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, we'll do that. If we're succinct and we move quickly, we'll be able to get a full round in.

Thank you again to the witnesses. It was very interesting.

Dr. Ross, we'll be back with you for a future appearance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I call the meeting back to order. We'll start now, so that we can finish not too late.

We have with us at the moment Dr. Christina Hoicka, Canada research chair in urban planning for climate change, and Francis Bradley, president and CEO of Electricity Canada. I think there are some log-in problems for Ms. Andrea Kent from Renewable Industries Canada, so we'll go to opening statements from Dr. Hoicka and Mr. Bradley.

You have three minutes, Dr. Hoicka.

[Dr. Christina Hoicka, Canada Research Chair in Urban Planning for Climate Change, Associate Professor in Geography and Civil Engineering, University of Victoria, As an Individual]

Hello. Thank you for having me here.

My Canada tri-council-funded research focuses on renewable energy transitions for communities in Canada and on nearly every continent. Canada can reach its 2030 targets to uphold its pledge made to the UNFCCC, which are only eight years away, if we follow the evidence on our fastest, cheapest options that also improve social and economic benefits in a socially and economically just manner.

Critical and technologically viable options for decarbonization include electrification of transportation, deep energy retrofits to buildings, the rapid introduction of heat pumps and the rapid scale-up of waste heat capture for heating and cooling processes in cities and industrial districts. To do this, we need to quickly scale up renewable electricity generation and new distribution and transmission technology to get this renewable electricity to where it's needed.

Peer-reviewed research shows that over at least 50 years, public and private sector funding for research, development and deployment for nuclear and fossil fuels has been orders of magnitude more than funding for renewable energy and energy efficiency in Canada. If we spent on renewables the way we spend on these, we could direct financial, regulatory, knowledge and administrative resources toward our best possible pathway of meeting both the 2030 and the 2050 targets.

A dramatic increase of renewable energy is possible as there have been technological advances. For example, renewable energy has become the cheapest option on the market, including compared to coal. Combining renewables and adding flexibility, like load balancing and demand response, can reduce the cost of storage.

According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and the International Energy Agency's energy technology guide, there are at least 38 technologies, including a range of renewable energy technologies, that are market-ready and could be scaled immediately with the right supports. According to my own research, Canada is not supporting these proven technologies to the extent needed to reach our climate goals.

Supports for renewable energy and reducing energy demand should focus on increasing the supply of renewable energy as a critical opportunity for local economic development and socio-economic benefits for rural and indigenous communities that can develop renewable energy to export out of our regions and into cities to support the rapid uptake of electric vehicles and heat pumps; addressing the electricity grid and developing and implementing innovations that reduce the congestion of energy demand in cities; research and development of new materials and innovations to address the supply of critical rare earth magnets and minerals; and removing regulatory barriers and improving the economic, regulatory and administrative supports to improve the utilization of these innovations.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much, Dr. Hoicka.

Mr. Bradley, you have three minutes.

[Francis Bradley, President and Chief Executive Officer, Electricity Canada]

Hello, Mr. Chair and committee members.

My name is Francis Bradley and I am the president and chief executive officer of Electricity Canada. Electricity Canada is the national voice for electricity in Canada. Our members produce, transport and distribute electricity to industry, commercial and residential clients from sea to sea.

Electricity is Canada's energy future, and it's a key economic, environmental and social enabler essential to Canadian prosperity.

The sector employs over 100,000 people and contributes over $30 billion to Canada's GDP. It's also among the cleanest in the world, with more than 80% of Canadian electricity already being produced from non-emitting sources.

Electricity itself is not a new technology. The first arc lamp was switched on in front of the Davis hotel in Winnipeg in 1873, the first recorded use of electric light in Canada. Even though electricity may be an old invention, let's not make the mistake of thinking that it's no longer innovative. In fact, electricity has been at the forefront of technological innovation throughout its history and will remain so, particularly as the world seeks to reduce emissions and move towards a greener economy.

Ultimately, emissions reduction is about finding innovative ways to power economic activity with cleaner technologies. Electricity is the nexus between emissions reduction and clean technologies. Our sector is either an adopter or an enabler of the clean technologies that will help us reach our climate goals. Electricity is a clean technology, and, with the appropriate support, it has the potential to fill most of our energy needs and pave the way towards a net-zero future.

Now, what do I mean by “appropriate support”? Getting to net zero will require massive investments in our electricity systems. Transportation, home heating and industrial processes that currently use some sort of fossil fuel will increasingly be electrified. Even where direct electrification isn't practical, such as with some heat-intensive processes or heavy transport, alternative fuels like hydrogen can be produced using electricity.

For us to reach our net-zero targets, electricity will need to become Canada's primary energy source. The federal government has projected that Canada will need to produce two to three times as much clean electricity by 2050. To do so, Canada will need to lean on all available options, including more renewables, traditional hydro and transmission, as well as emerging technologies such as small modular reactors, carbon capture, energy storage and hydrogen. Balancing all of this alongside affordability and reliability will be a monumental effort.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

[Francis Bradley]

The number of days before the end of 2035—when the government has committed us to be net zero—is 4,851. It's not a lot of time. To meet the needs of tomorrow, Canada needs to start building today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's perfect.

Mr. Seeback, go ahead for six minutes, please.