Evidence of meeting #26 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was electricity.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
Am I done already?
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes. There will be opportunities for a back-and-forth.
Let's try Dr. Ross one more time.
Dr. Ross, could you say a few words?
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Industrial Research Chair in Northern Energy Innovation, Yukon University, As an Individual
Can you hear me?
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Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Industrial Research Chair in Northern Energy Innovation, Yukon University, As an Individual
The fall up here is beautiful.
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Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Industrial Research Chair in Northern Energy Innovation, Yukon University, As an Individual
Last year on this day, we had snow.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
No, it's not working.
Okay. I would urge you to send any written comments to the clerk. If you would like to do that, it would be helpful for the report. Please participate in that way if you can.
We'll go to the first round, the six-minute round, with Mr. Seeback, please.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I guess I'm going to open this up to any of the witnesses who would like to answer this question or want to take a stab at it.
Vaclav Smil writes extensively about energy transitions. When we talk about moving towards net zero in Canada and around the world, what we're talking about is an energy transition. One thing Smil says is that “all energy transitions have one thing in common: They are prolonged affairs that take decades to accomplish, and the greater the scale of prevailing uses and conversions, the longer the substitutions will take”.
Right now in Canada, only about 7.4% of electricity is generated by wind and solar or biomass. Given the complexity and difficulty of energy transitions, whether it's from wood to coal or from coal to natural gas, etc., why is the pace of this transition in Canada moving so slowly?
3:45 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
I'll start talking a little bit. We'll kick it off and hopefully not offend anyone. Certainly, certain countries outside of Canada have been more bullish on policies, where certain fuels in certain applications are no longer accepted. Those economic environments are quite different from Canada's economic environment, in which we do rely on that sector to fund a lot of non-energy-related programs around social services and other pieces.
At Foresight, we are supporting those regions that would like to go aggressively and go straight to green hydrogen, but we also understand that some sectors need to take a more thoughtful approach.
Something I would like to see, and something that Foresight has been championing, is an energy decision tree so we can map out where it makes sense for hydro, biofuels or hydrogen, based on some economic drivers in different regions or some outputs or waste energy materials—biofuels and things like that—in certain heavy-industry regions across the country. That might accelerate that pathway for industry that is perhaps not able to flip a switch.
In certain situations where there's more low-hanging fruit, I think we could be more bullish. Retrofits and stuff are nice, but, even with cement, there are still a lot of great companies that are doing zero cement that can't get into the sector. Energy is a big piece, but I'm cognizant of the importance of that sector for other intentions.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
You mentioned cement. I've heard of net-zero cement being developed in some countries. I was in Sweden, and they talked about that. What's the impediment to that being adopted here?
3:45 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
You have great companies like CarbonCure and several others that sell outside of Canada, but there are policies with respect to building across municipalities. If it's not embedded in the specifications, then it's just too complicated for the engineering firm approving the project, or even the engineers within those communities, if it's a municipal buyer, to get a project approved within a jurisdiction.
3:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
Actually, most of the projects now are becoming cost-comparable. You might pay a small premium, but once you start to factor in carbon tax, you have to do a holistic analysis.
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Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Right. I'm glad you brought up the carbon tax. The carbon tax is in Canada. It's been running for a number of years. Emissions in Canada have gone up every year since the carbon tax was implemented. Would you say it's been an effective tool to reduce carbon emissions?
3:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
I am not a carbon tax expert. I do believe the carbon tax creates a framework to collect dollars to invest in programs that will accelerate the net-zero transition. I think it has the effect, in certain ways beyond the money, of getting people to start thinking and acting, so yes.
Now, on numbers from a per capita perspective, we're monitoring those. We'd like to see Canada be the first G7 country. Consumer behaviours and other things could also be invested in.
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Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Does anybody else want to take a stab at that question before I move on to another question?
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Mr. Moreau, you raised your hand. Did you want to answer the question?
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Executive Vice-President, Écotech Québec
Yes. We were mostly talking about why the energy transition couldn't happen faster. Essentially, we need public policies in place to accelerate it.
Renewable energy can replace fossil fuels in some situations. Unfortunately, others require more research. Clean technologies accelerate that research. We absolutely need to invest in companies that have solutions for the industrial sector, such as replacing natural gas with hydrogen for certain processes.
I think public policy has a big role to play. We need to provide tax incentives and tie available subsidies to the principle of cross-compliance to get results. We need to encourage investments and things like the carbon tax or the carbon exchange, a tool we have here in Quebec that can be quite effective. However, once again, we need to link the implementation of all our programs with accountability by requiring a contribution to the energy transition.
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Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
When you talk about government programs, do you think the tax credits and other incentives that the government offers for investment in clean tech are sufficient to speed up the energy transition?
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Please give us a very brief answer. We're out of time, but go ahead.
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Executive Vice-President, Écotech Québec
It is never enough. We need to create synergy between existing programs and add support for those with solutions that could be applied immediately.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
Dr. Ross, I see your hand is up. Has something changed?
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Industrial Research Chair in Northern Energy Innovation, Yukon University, As an Individual
Can you hear me?