Environment Committee on March 27th, 2023

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Ms. Drainville makes a really good point. That's another comment, Mr. Chair. The amount for the Great Lakes is $420 million plus $80 million, for a total of half a billion dollars. That's halfway there, Ms. Collins. Who knows? Tomorrow is the budget, and we may hear some more good news on fresh water. I certainly hope so.

I imagine some of the detail surrounding the $420 million and how it will be spent may be laid out in the budget. Is that correct?

[Chris Forbes]

I think, either in the budget or in the weeks that follow, we will certainly get more details and clarify how we're going to proceed.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

I don't want to pre-empt the budget. Of course, no one knows what's in the budget, except a few select folks.

I'll move on to one final question, Mr. Chair, as my time winds down.

We've made a commitment—this has been in throne speeches and mandate letters—to establish a Canada water agency and a freshwater action plan; $500 million of that has been announced. We are going to modernize the Canada Water Act. My understanding is the act will be modernized with a climate change lens, front and centre, and with indigenous rights as an important component.

I wonder whether anyone at the table could comment on that, particularly the issue of addressing indigenous rights in light of UNDRIP, and the importance of fresh water to indigenous people, which, of course, they emphasized when we were at the UN.

You have 15 seconds.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Chris Forbes]

I think you hit on the important points.

One key, for us, will be engagement with indigenous people and communities, in order to understand their needs and expectations and to make sure we work with them, in any way, as we move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Ms. Pauzé, the floor is yours.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm going to continue in the same vein as Mr. Duguid concerning the $3 million.

I believe it was Ms. Drainville who was saying that this money would be used to prepare the plan.

Mr. Forbes, where do we stand now, in terms of the development of this agency?

[Chris Forbes]

No formal decision has been made concerning the form the agency will take. However, the preparation efforts include creating a team that is responsible for developing the agency's mandate, whatever its format. There is work to be done to prepare the ground before launching the agency.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I know there are people waiting for money for it.

My next question is for the representative of the Parks Canada Agency.

Ms. Blanchard, at COP15, a commitment was made to protect 30% of the land by 2030.

Could you tell us, in broad terms, what organizations and departments will be participating in that commitment?

[Catherine Blanchard]

Thank you very much.

In terms of the organizations involved in this protection effort, it's a wide range of stakeholders, including provinces, municipalities and indigenous groups. I don't have an exact, detailed list. It is extremely long. As I said earlier, everything we do, within Parks Canada, is relationship- and collaboration-based, with a high level of engagement.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Okay.

I am now going to come back to Environment and Climate Change Canada. The main estimates provide for about $876 million for measures relating to clean growth and climate change.

Mr. Forbes, can you give us an idea of these measures for clean growth, and tell us how that is going to enable us to achieve the Paris Accord objectives?

[Chris Forbes]

I think this title is used to refer to a whole range of programs. I would refer to...

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry, your speaking time is up.

Ms. Collins, the floor is now yours.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to ask a question about indigenous-led forest stewardship and follow up on Mr. Weiler's question about the old growth fund.

For the past few years, my NDP colleagues and I have been pushing the government to provide funding for first nations communities on the coast, in order to ensure they can do indigenous-led forest stewardship. That funding should be short-term, to financially compensate them when deferrals are made; intermediate, for consultation within the community; and long-term, to implement the indigenous-led forest stewardship plans. I'm curious to know whether the old growth fund covers all three of these stages for supporting first nations in indigenous-led forest stewardship.

As a quick comment, we're pushing for $500 million, and this is a very small fraction of that.

Where is this funding going, and do you think it will be adequate to support nations in this work?

[Chris Forbes]

I would have to get back to you on the details of how that programming is split up, the various lines of it. I don't have that answer for you right now. It's what we've got to work with right now and we'll use it as a way of moving forward. Certainly our goal is always to make sure that the funding is sufficient to move forward to where we need to get to in terms of stewardship.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thanks. It is so critical that we are protecting the last of our ancient forests. These are critical ecosystems. Also, the federal government has a responsibility to support nations in this critical work. These nations have been stewarding their lands since time immemorial.

If you could follow up in writing, I would love to see the breakdown of where that money is going. Thank you.

I have a question about the breakdown of the grants and contributions for first nations communities on the Trans Mountain expansion project. Is there another level of detail that I could see in terms of how the government is spending that money and where the money is going?

[Linda Drainville]

I don't think so, unfortunately.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll go now to Mr. Deltell for five minutes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the House of Commons and the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development, ladies and gentlemen.

First of all, Mr. Forbes, you look like the new man on the team, so welcome.

You made me laugh when you said earlier that since you arrived you've received a lot of invitations. Welcome to the club. When I was appointed by my honourable leader as critic for climate change and environmental issues, on a daily basis I received around 100 invitations during the first week, each and every day. This is what Canada is all about: a wide country, 10 provinces, all localities, and first and foremost, people, because those people are very involved when we talk about climate change. This is why you have plenty of groups, and this is what we appreciate.

I would like to come back to the two topics I addressed a little earlier with the Minister.

To begin, I am going to talk about the 27th United Nations Conference on Climate Change, COP27, which was held in Egypt. At that event, we spent over a million dollars to pay for hotel rooms. I would like to draw your attention to one of them, the room rented at the Reef Oasis Blue Bay Resort, which seems to be a lovely place to stay. The room cost $700 a night, and it was rented for 17 nights. Although we are all concerned about the price, what I find more interesting is that someone spent 17 nights in that room when the conference lasted only 12 days.

Why was that person in that room before or after the conference?

[Chris Forbes]

I'm going to ask Ms. Drainville to answer that question.

[Linda Drainville]

Thank you for the question.

As you said, the conference lasted 12 days, but people had to get there in advance to handle logistics. They had to stay 24 hours longer to make sure that all the equipment needed for the Canada Pavilion would be returned to Canada. That is why the length of stay was longer.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'm now going to come back to the hotel where the most reservations were made: 106 rooms, 1,220 nights, 113 people. Those are among the most expensive rooms.

Why was the Canadian delegation, made up of 113 people, in one of the most expensive hotels?

[Linda Drainville]

Thank you for the question.

We have to remember that these events are very high security. We have to work with the host country to accommodate participants in a pre-authorized hotel.

In this case, we used the list of hotels provided by the host country. That is why certain delegations were accommodated in specific hotels. Substantially the same thing was done at the United Nations Biodiversity Conference that was held in Montreal. We wanted to ensure the security of the hotels where people were staying.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

If I understand correctly, we are held hostage by the people who organize the stay. A majority of the delegation stayed in the most expensive hotel: $1,545.58 for a room. There are several cases like that.

What measures are going to be taken for the next Conference on Climate Change, which will be held in Dubai? The last I heard, Dubai is not exactly a place where an all-inclusive hotel can be found for under $100 a night.

What measures are you going to take to make sure that astronomical sums are not being spent? Spending $1 million to pay for hotel rooms in Egypt is a lot.

[Chris Forbes]

Our goal is always to keep the costs associated with events like these as low as possible. We look at the various options, in terms of hotel room prices, and for the delegation and the number of participants whose expenses we are paying, since you talked about that, we make sure we are only sending the people we need.

This is the kind of exercise we do for all events we participate in.