Environment Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Mike Nemeth]

I'll add that it's critical in all of our milling processes, slurry use.... Without fresh water, even the rates that we can recycle and reuse water.... Fresh water is absolutely critical to the production at all stages.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I know a lot of fertilizer plants get accused of...from the cooling towers. As we were talking about, there are millions of gallons a day, basically, that are just evaporating. You need water to cool things off. That was always quite astounding. Never mind the water you need for the boilers in the processes and all those kinds of things people don't consider, just to make a ton of fertilizer and to feed over 50% of the world.

You touched earlier on the regulatory environment. I'm kind of curious. Between Canada and the U.S., both countries work a lot with each other when it comes to fertilizer production and even supply chains. Back in Brandon, we're always shipping down to North Dakota, so the supply is there.

In dealing with the two different countries and the regulatory burden, are you seeing a certain pattern here in Canada that we can correct versus the U.S. so that we can be more competitive, build more fertilizer plants and be more self-reliant?

[Tim Faveri]

Certainly, the incentive infrastructure in the U.S. is very strong. I know the Canadian government and other governments around the world have tried to step up in ways similar to what the U.S. has done. The regulatory burden, we feel, will always exist. To some extent, it's greater in other countries than it is in Canada, and to many extents, it's less burdensome as well.

Again, I would reiterate that we have to look at all the issues with respect to the production that we deal with, water being a material one, as you indicated. We have described how important it is. Emissions, labour, access to tidewater, etc., are all very important factors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. van Koeverden, you may go ahead for four minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks again to all the witnesses who have come today to provide their testimony.

Just to recap, 5.3 million litres of toxic tailings from Imperial Oil's Kearl Lake leaked into nearby waterways. Most agree that this includes the Athabasca River. Alberta Premier Danielle Smith has said the Imperial Kearl Lake mine had no affect on local waterways or wildlife.

When he was here back in December, Imperial Oil CEO Brad Corson corroborated the same when he said that he was happy with how his company had dealt with this disaster. He also said there was “no process-affected water” that had entered waterways, despite the fact that Imperial Oil's own reports conceded that some tailings had entered into a nearby fish-bearing lake.

These are all attempts to minimize this environmental disaster. These attempts by both Premier of Alberta Danielle Smith and the CEO of Imperial Oil are extremely distressing.

Chief Tuccaro, I've read your letter to the Prime Minister. I agree with the four recommendations that you've made. I think anybody would, given the chance to read it. I'll highlight them just to get them on the record here.

The requests are collaboration on immediate actions with respect to the availability of safe drinking water; enhanced information sharing; taking action on health risks and funding for a Fort Chipewyan health study; and action to assess and correct tailings risks, which is a federal and indigenous audit of risks for all tailings facilities in the region.

I would note that, from research on this study, it has come to light that most of them are actually designed to leak.

Request number four was to take action on the tailings reclamation crisis, including support for enhanced indigenous-led monitoring and training, and identifying actions and real solutions to tailings.

I want to thank you for taking the time to write that letter. Thank you for advocating to our government. I want to say that we're broadly supportive of all your requests and recommendations. We're working to ensure better outcomes for your citizens. Your community deserves better, Chief. From us, I want to apologize from Canadians.

I wasn't satisfied with the answers that we received from Imperial Oil CEO Brad Corson back in December. I heard from members of your community that they weren't either. We're going to keep holding them to account and demanding better from these oil companies. It's an absolute disaster, which continues to occur.

Before I go on, Chief Tuccaro, do you have any reflections on progress with that letter or anything that you'd like us to know that you've made recommendations for since writing the letter?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Thank you.

In regard to what we had mentioned and what we put forward there in the four asks, we've kind of hit a wall in regard to those asks.

That's the reason I went to Ottawa last week. You can only send so many letters. Then when you get there, you find out that 98% of the letters aren't even actually opened up and read. That's the reason why we made the journey there—to actually beg. I'm going to be honest. We went there to beg to get this community health study done. It's 20 years overdue.

I took one of my councillors, who's a former chief. She was the one who had pushed this issue 20 years ago. A lot of these issues that they tabled 20 years ago are still surfacing now. That's the reason why we made the trek and made the contacts there.

Now, like I said when I was there last week, if nothing is done, we'll be back again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're going to see you when we travel up to Fort Chip, by the way, but I know that when you say you want to see “us”, you mean the government departments.

We'll go now to Madame Pauzé for two minutes, please.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I take it that our travel request was approved. That means we will be going on a trip.

Chief Tuccaro, are you getting the interpretation? Yes? Okay.

You talked about the funding you needed. It's obvious that health is your number one concern.

What measures should the federal government prioritize when it comes to protecting the water, health and rights of indigenous communities in Alberta?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Can you provide more information, please, with that question?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Sorry. I didn't understand your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Could you provide more information to help the witness better understand what you're asking?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

You gave us some recommendations, so I'm wondering which ones you think should be prioritized. Which measures need to be taken in order to protect the water, health and rights of indigenous communities?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

The health study that we've been requesting for the last 20 years would go a long way to telling us exactly what's going on in the area. I know for a fact.... I'm 46 years old. I've had the benefit of living on the land and off the land. The reason why I choose to live off the land now is because of the dangers that are out there in regard to the water, the animals, the fish and the berries that my people consume for harvesting and stuff like that.

The recommendation we're putting forward is in regard to the health study. We really need that done in the community as soon as possible, and I truly believe that—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Were you able to meet with the Minister of Health?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You're out of time, but I think the witness said that he had met with the health minister.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

What was the response he got?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

On Madame Pauzé's question, I think you mentioned that you did meet the health minister, Chief Tuccaro.

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Yes, we did. Again, it all boils down to the lack of funds and where they would access them from—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes. Okay—

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

—for the health study. I mentioned to him that they get a lot of money from the area of the extractions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I understand.

We'll go to Ms. Collins now.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Maybe I'll just let the chief finish that thought. Oil companies are raking in record profits and billions of dollars. There is a lot of money being made and the cost of a health study seems....

Chief, if you wanted to finish your thought...?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

In regard to the health study, a lot of money is taken from this area. I know for a fact that the health study we're proposing is in the neighbourhood of about $30 million, and we're not asking for everything up front. We're asking for it in instalments. Then, for the people who are going to be funding that, there are deliverables on our behalf, too, to see that there are actually things being done.

I truly believe that $30 million is a drop in a bucket. When you hear of an executive making $17 million a year, just one person, I mean, that tells me that there's money available for this to be done. I don't know if they don't want to do it because they're scared that the answers are what they don't want to see, but we need those answers in regard to what's going on in this community.

Thank you.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you so much, Chief.

Our party has been pushing for an excess profit tax on oil and gas companies so that we can put money into supporting communities that are impacted. The government has a responsibility to do this health study, so we're going to keep pushing them on that.

I do want to quickly ask this question. It's for Mr. Pietroniro and also Ms. Hendriks. I'm curious as to what role you think the federal government should play in addressing the climate crisis and, in particular, how funding programs might support nature investments in fresh water. How do you see that in the next few decades?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll have time for one person to answer that. It's a big question.

Ms. Hendriks, I think that sounds like it might be a question for you, but with a very brief answer, please.

Mr. Pietroniro, please don't be offended that I didn't go to you.

Go ahead, Ms. Hendriks.