Environment Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Tim Faveri]

Some are federal, but they're mostly provincial.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Also, in your opening statement, you said that Nutrien operates in 13 different countries.

Can you give the committee an idea of what types of regulatory processes exist in other countries compared to in Canada? What works well in other countries that we could borrow here?

[Tim Faveri]

In every country we operate in, regulatory requirements are significant, and it takes many years for us to go through that process.

What works well is, for example, what's happening in the United States with the Inflation Reduction Act incentives to stimulate growth in sectors where we operate.

However, every time we would look into that activity.... It's a very complex assessment of different material factors. Water would be one and access to water. For Nutrien, it's actually access to tidewater to get our products out to global markets but also to fresh water for our operations. Greenhouse gas emissions, etc.—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll have to go now to Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here.

Chief Tuccaro, I'd love to hear any comments you weren't able to make because of time. You can open up my questions by finishing your comments, if there are any you'd like to make.

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Thank you, Lloyd. I appreciate that.

I had one more point to make. I will end with the existing quantity of fresh water in our territory.

Over the decades, Mikisew Cree First Nation has raised and continues to raise serious concerns about the quantity of fresh water, not only because of industry and resource development but because of the B.C. Hydro Bennett dam and, most recently, Site C, which affect our beloved Peace-Athabasca Delta.

When we cannot access the lands because of low water levels, we cannot hunt and gather. This impacts our rights, our culture, our food security and our identity. The solutions offered through Parks Canada are not meaningful and don't provide any real solutions to the low levels that we witness year after year.

Thank you.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Chief Tuccaro.

In our last meeting, I made reference to a comment you made to me when we met, when you were in Ottawa a few weeks ago, about what living on the land actually means in real experience in terms of making tea out of snow or children being able to swim in lakes without parents worrying about them getting sick.

Can you give us more insight into how bad water affects, in real time, hunting, gathering or recreation?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Yes. Thanks, Lloyd. I'll elaborate on that.

With regard to the water and what it's doing to my people and why we cannot hunt and gather as much as we'd like to, a lot of the time people are now going onto the land just for recreational use, as well as being there just for their mental health.

With regard to that, since the Kearl incident in May 2022, a lot of my people have turned away from the traditional way of life of being on the land with regard to hunting and trapping, because they are afraid to eat the stuff they are harvesting on the land. What that is doing is.... A lot of the people who are usually out on the land are staying in the community a lot more, and that is creating social problems for my people. A lot of them are turning to opiates. With regard to what's happening in my community, we also have an opiate crisis and a major drug issue.

Before the Kearl incident and what's been going on with regard to my people on the land, like Lloyd mentioned—I mentioned this to him when I was in Ottawa—a lot of my people, when they went on the land, took the snow right from wherever they were and made snow water for tea and coffee. A lot of my people don't do that anymore. A lot of my people don't use the beach area for swimming anymore because they're not sure what's going on with the water after the Kearl incident. It's still continuing to seep to this day.

We have seen a huge escalation in cancer in the last two years. I know that for a fact. As a chief, I know between 40 and 50 people who have been diagnosed or whose cancers were in remission and have now resurfaced. We also have the rarest form of cancer: bile duct cancer. When my people are diagnosed with that, they perish within a couple of months. I've seen it first-hand.

I was in the hospital with one of my best friends when he was diagnosed with this, the rarest form of cancer, about 20 years ago. His name was Grant Couteray. I spoke with the doctor. I wanted to know what was going on, and the doctor said, “Mr. Tuccaro, the treatment we gave your best buddy here...all it did was speed up his death,” because they don't have any idea how to treat it.

This is—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Another impact was that people don't want to go to the doctor because they don't want the bad news.

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Yes, that's exactly what it is. A lot of people are afraid right now. I know for a fact that there are couples.... The husband took his wife out, and his wife was being treated. He started not feeling well himself. He decided to get an opinion there while he was in Edmonton, and it was the same thing with him. He was diagnosed with cancer already. These are the real issues of what's going on in the community.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Finally, the hunters have to buy flats of bottled water, which is ridiculous. Also, the cost of bottled water is ridiculous.

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Yes. A flat of 24 of water right now in the community is $27 or $28. Since the incident, Imperial has sent water into the community. We appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Like I said, this is a long process where it's going to take a lot for trust to be gained.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Madame Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you to the witnesses.

It's nice to see you again, Chief Tuccaro.

The more I learn about the human and environmental toll of oil sands production, the more outraged I become.

You said that you depend on water and that, without it, you will die. You gave us examples of the situation.

However, I'd like you to tell us about your relationship with the federal government, and your thoughts on Bill C-61, an act respecting water, source water, drinking water, wastewater and related infrastructure on First Nation lands. The committee is studying freshwater, and you rely on the Athabasca River for drinking water. It is incumbent upon Canada to show honour and integrity in all its dealings with indigenous peoples.

As of right now, three departments should be concerned about what's happening in your community. If I understand correctly, not one of them has acted honourably or with integrity.

Bill C-61 is currently at second reading. Do you really think that the government gave your concerns the consideration they deserved?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Did the interpretation come through, Chief?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

No, it didn't.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

He didn't get the interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Chief, do you hear the English interpretation of what I'm saying in French?

You'll see a little globe, I think, on your screen. Is it on English?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

It's on original audio, so I'll just go to English now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Do you hear the English interpretation?

[Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro]

Yes, I can hear you.