Environment Committee on Nov. 20th, 2025

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

If Ottawa adjusted the rules to allow hybrids—like cleanly adjusted the rules so it's done—what kind of uptake would you expect in the trucking, forestry and mining industry? Are these vehicles a reliable long-term solution for those industries?

[Eric Little]

Yes.

Hybrids have been in the market for large industry, such as trains—a great example—since the 1930s. They went electric and they've never gone back.

It's the same with mining trucks as well. It's the same deal. They started in the 1960s using electric drivetrain technology. They have not gone back.

This is the future-proof technology. What's great is that it is for the future of all trucks. I am very confident. At Edison, we are very confident this is the future of all trucks.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Suffice it to say that the uptake would be massive, large and significant.

[Eric Little]

Yes, most definitely.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Emphasizing the importance of practical, made-in-Canada solutions, are there any other roadblocks, barriers or hindrances on your path to full adoption?

[Eric Little]

The only thing I would mention to the committee is that the biggest roadblock is that without this amendment, or these several amendments, to this regulation, which is under the alternative hybrid engine standard, we cannot build trucks that are hybrid in Canada and we cannot have the export potential to the world. If we can't validate our technology here, we can't do it anywhere.

We're hoping that, with your support and advice, we could potentially make this amendment happen.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Very quickly, is there anything else in the medium to longer term?

[Eric Little]

Like I mentioned to the committee, long term I would love to see Canada adopt the European standard as well as the EPA and Unison standards so that we would have a much more competitive market and have the potential to be a world player with great Canadian technology around the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Thank you, Mr. Little.

Mrs. Miedema, the floor is yours for five minutes, on video conference.

[Shannon Miedema, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you, and sorry I couldn't be with you today.

Thanks to all the witnesses for your testimony.

My question is for Mr. Allan. I used to work for Halifax Regional Municipality on environment and climate, and we were really struggling with trying to roll out charging infrastructure, and we were trying to think about ways to incentivize that charging infrastructure being required in multi-unit apartment buildings, because there are several places where you don't have that garage access within our urban setting.

Does your organization work with local as well as provincial and territorial governments on the policy side? I get the ITC conversation, but can you speak to that? Is there any good work happening? We were trying to do it through planning documents and bylaws.

If you could share your thoughts on that, that would be great.

Thank you.

[Travis Allan]

Yes, there is a very established suite of policies that can resolve that issue. It's often seen as the most challenging issue in the EV charging space.

The first thing is making sure to update provincial building codes so that we're not making the problem worse. Let's make sure we build buildings that are EV ready. The second is looking at retrofit programs that can support buildings to retrofit the whole parking lot in an efficient way so that everyone can access charging. The third is providing alternatives in city parking lots and curbside for people like me. I'm actually what's called a garage orphan. I charge outside of my house because I don't have a driveway. I rely on a city-owned charging station down the street, and that can be a great solution that's very efficient for many families.

With that combination, you can actually make a lot of progress.

[Shannon Miedema, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

We have some neighbourhoods like that right in downtown Halifax, without driveways and garages, so that's good to know.

One of the other big barriers to uptake is often the time to charge, and across Atlantic Canada, some fast chargers were being put in, but then there were lineups at the couple of fast chargers, and they still took a certain number of minutes.

Recently I found out about some new advancements in technology with the BYD fast-charging system that can give you about 400 kilometres of range in five minutes. I know that's not available in Canada yet, but can you speak to what's happening with fast charging and what it would take to bring it to Canada?

[Travis Allan]

Yes, we are getting to a point finally where the public charging stations that are being built are starting to be at a speed—typically 125 kilowatts-plus—where a typical driver will find that by the time they plug in, go use the facilities, buy a bag of chips at the convenience store and come back out, their new vehicle is likely to be charged almost at the same time based on current driving patterns, so it would take 15 to 20 minutes.

If you go to the power that you're talking about with those BYD stations, it is going to increase your capital costs very much to build those stations just because they're such a big load on the grid.

I think that's going to happen in very big cities, but you'll find for a lot of Canada that the 125-, 150- and 200-kilowatt stations are going to be your sweet spot between power and cost.

[Shannon Miedema, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

That makes sense for our size.

Are there any other incentives for private companies that just want to show leadership and provide charging on their property, whether it's a retail outlet or whatever, other than something like an ITC? How do we actually socialize the business? What is the financial business case? Do you have to consider other co-benefits like marketing, brands and leadership and things like that?

[Travis Allan]

Those definitely help, but you're starting to see sophisticated grocery stores and retailers that are installing charging and they are creating additional revenue streams. For example, in Quebec, Sobeys has been a big leader in this area. You've seen announcements from Tim Hortons and many others that are working with the charging industry to attract consumers but also to create an alternative revenue stream, which can obviously help the economics.

[Shannon Miedema, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

That's perfect.

Mr. Stewart, from your perspective, you've talked about this a bit, but how does the EVAS enhance consumer choice and why is that important?

[Keith Stewart]

Well, electric vehicles started, as I said, as a niche market for wealthy people, and I think the EVAS levels the playing field and make this available to all consumers. It can be designed to enhance, to make sure that we have affordable—

My apologies. The time's up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

I'm sorry. Thank you very much.

That puts an end to this round.

I thank the witnesses for being present today and wish them a safe return. The witnesses are free to go.

We will suspend to prepare for the next round. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

The meeting will resume.

The committee is resuming its study on the electric vehicle availability standard.

This afternoon, the committee is meeting with the following witnesses:

from Dunsky Energy and Climate, Mr. Jeff Turner, director of mobility, and from Environmental Defence Canada, Mr. Sam Hersh, clean transportation program manager.

Each speaker has five minutes for their remarks.

When you see a yellow card going up, it means that you have one minute to speak. When I turn it over, please complete your sentence.

We will start with Mr. Jeff Turner for five minutes.

Thank you.

[Jeff Turner, Director, Mobility, Dunsky Energy and Climate]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Jeff Turner. I'm the director of mobility at Dunsky Energy and Climate Advisors.

I'll begin by providing a bit of background on my own professional experience, followed by an overview of the type of work that Dunsky does in the EV space and some specific findings from recent projects as they relate to the EV availability standards, or EVAS.

My career has been focused on transportation electrification for almost 20 years. I have degrees in mechanical engineering from McGill University, where my research involved designing prototype hybrid and electric vehicles and modelling battery performance in cold climates. I've worked for two different vehicle manufacturers—one selling EVs in London and another based in Vancouver, B.C., developing hybrid and electric commercial vehicles in partnership with Ford Motor Company.

Following this, I spent four years at BC Hydro's Powertech Labs, where I focused on technologies that help integrate EVs into the grid and deploying public charging infrastructure.

In 2017, I joined Dunsky, which is a Canadian firm with over 65 professionals focused on analysis and strategy development to support the energy transition. Since then, we've conducted projects with governments, utilities and corporations in all 10 provinces, as well as leading states like California, Colorado and Massachusetts to help them to understand and design policies to overcome barriers to the adoption of EVs, anticipate the pace of adoption and associated demand on the grid, and develop policies for effective deployment of charging infrastructure.

Here in Ottawa, our name is often associated with reports we've published on EV availability in dealerships for Transport Canada or on charging infrastructure forecasts and fleet electrification for Enercan. We've also developed load forecasts for 15 Canadian electric utilities across eight provinces, as well as EV analysis and strategies for 22 Canadian cities from Halifax to Victoria, Toronto to Calgary and many in between.

This is not to mention our work with provincial governments of all stripes, including B.C., Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, P.E.I. and Nova Scotia.

Through these projects, we gain a deep understanding of how EVs are working in these regions, what specific barriers are holding consumers back and how these barriers are evolving over time. This has given us the chance to continually refine our analysis and, in particular, our EV adoption forecasting model, which we first launched in 2018. We recently had the opportunity to put this model to use developing forecasts for EV adoption in each province and territory as part of the Powering Up project with Electric Mobility Canada. We forecasted EV adoption under a range of policy scenarios and quantified the associated electrical load growth in each region.

Over the past two months, we've been able to revisit this analysis and focus in specifically on the impact of EVAS and explore a few alternate policy scenarios, all while accounting for the disruptions we've observed in the market in 2025, including the sudden pause in financial rebates and the resulting uncertainty in the market. Our analysis found that even in the absence of supportive policies, we are likely to see the Canadian light-duty vehicle market transition to EVs, driven by ongoing technology progress that is global in nature.

We also found that policies like EVAS can significantly accelerate this transition, bringing the benefits of EVs to more Canadians sooner. These benefits include affordability—EVs save, on average, about $1,700 per year in fuel costs alone—and reductions of GHG emissions and other emissions that have significant health impacts for Canadians.

On affordability, while EVs can save their owners money over the life of the vehicle, we know that most vehicle shoppers are not like me—they don't use a spreadsheet to calculate total cost of ownership—and their primary focus is on the sticker price. Our modelling captures this dynamic and captures how adoption increases as upfront EV prices come down over time.

Our modelling highlighted that while EVAS helps by ensuring a smoother EV shopping experience, fewer months-long wait-lists, more vehicles on lots and motivated salespeople, it can also drive automakers to accelerate these EV price reductions through greater competition and economies of scale.

We also modelled a multipronged approach that includes complementary strategies to help increase EV affordability, including modest government rebates that are phased out gradually over time, helping to share the load of achieving those price points.

With the right policy mix, we found that a target of 50% EV market share is achievable by 2030, leading to an additional $30 billion of fuel savings and $4 billion in health benefits, thanks to improved air quality in Canadian cities.

Finally, across all our work, we see repeatedly how valuable this type of policy is in terms of providing market certainty, especially for the utilities and private sector actors we work with, who are considering significant investments in grid capacity and charging infrastructure. We have seen first-hand how regulated targets increase confidence and solidify business cases, unlocking significant investment in Canada from valuable partners in the EV transition.

I look forward to your questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Thank you very much, Mr. Turner.

Mr. Hersh, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Sam Hersh, Clean Transportation Program Manager, Environmental Defence Canada]

Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Sam Hersh and I'm the clean transportation program manager at Environmental Defence, which is a leading Canadian environmental advocacy organization. We work with government, industry and individuals to defend clean water, a safe climate and healthy communities.

Our position is clear: Canada must maintain a strict EV availability standard. Weakening or pausing these regulations would harm consumers, compromise climate goals and jeopardize Canada's competitiveness in the global transition to clean transportation. It would also benefit an auto industry that has resisted progress for decades.

The standard has a simple purpose: to make electric vehicles available and affordable in every region of Canada. Before the standard, Canadians faced chronic shortages, and this was not because Canadians didn't want EVs. It was because automakers restricted the supply by prioritizing high-margin gasoline trucks and SUVs over more affordable electric models.

The EVAS changes that by ensuring that Canada receives its fair share of EV supply. When EVs become available, the benefits are substantial. Some modelling shows that, with a strong EVAS, Canadians would save $45 billion in fuel costs by 2035, about $1,750 per EV driver per year, because electricity is far cheaper and more stable in price than gasoline.

The standard is also one of the most effective and least expensive climate policies in Canada. It would reduce emissions by 69 megatonnes by 2035, which would be the equivalent of taking 15 million gas-powered cars off the road. There are also huge health benefits, and these benefits would quickly diminish if regulations were weakened or delayed.

Despite what the auto industry claims, now is the right time to move forward with an EV standard. Recent sales declines were driven by a pause in federal and provincial rebates and by short-term uncertainty about the future of the EVAS itself. This is exactly why the regulation includes extensive, built-in flexibility, including early action credits, a three-year averaging period, credit banking, limited PHEV contributions and credits for infrastructure investments. The EVAS was designed to absorb short-term shocks. Pausing 2026 compliance obligations was unnecessary and created more uncertainty, not less.

Automakers have proven time and time again that voluntary measures are not enough. Legacy automakers have opposed or delayed every major environmental and safety regulation for decades, as someone on the previous panel mentioned, from seat belts to fuel efficiency standards to earlier electric vehicle policies. In Canada alone, they have held more than 200 lobbying meetings specifically about the EVAS with federal officials since the standard was introduced and are running coordinated campaigns to weaken or eliminate the EVAS. All of this aligns with a long-standing strategy: Preserve the high-profit gasoline truck business model for as long as possible. A status quo without the EVAS overwhelmingly benefits the automakers, not Canadians in urban, suburban or rural areas.

If Canada retreats from the EVAS now, EV prices will remain high, affordable models will remain scarce and charging infrastructure investment will slow. We would also risk losing ground to international competitors that are surging ahead in global sales. Meanwhile, U.S. automakers would gain an advantage in the remaining gasoline vehicle market just as they are aggressively lobbying for slower transition times.

Environmental Defence Canada urges the committee to maintain the EVAS with only limited recalibration. We recommend, in a submission that we put forward to this committee with other organizations, reinstating a 2026 requirement that reflects the actual market share, resuming the trajectory of requirements no later than 2027 and avoiding new flexibility mechanisms that dilute the standard.

The EV availability standard is not the problem; it's the solution. It protects consumers, strengthens Canada's competitiveness, improves public health and enables climate progress without multi-billion-dollar government subsidies. Weakening it now would be a costly mistake. A rigorous standard is the best way to ensure that Canadians have cleaner and more affordable vehicles and that Canada remains a leader in the clean transportation economy.

Thank you.

I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Thank you, Mr. Hersh.

We'll begin members' questions with Mr. Leslie from the Conservative Party.

The floor is yours for six minutes.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you both for being here with us today.

I'd like to start with Mr. Hersh.

I had the chance to send a survey out to all of my constituents, and I had one of the highest response rates specifically on this issue. The question was: Do you support the EV mandate? Ninety-eight per cent of the respondents said that they do not support the mandate. They said that they want to be able to choose the vehicle that's going to work for them.

Are you trying to tell me that all of them are wrong?

[Sam Hersh]

Thanks for your question, MP Leslie.

I'm certainly not saying that.

To challenge the premise, I think the EVAS, as many other panellists have said, is not about telling people what they can and can't drive; rather, it's about giving Canadians the ability to choose to drive an electric car or not. Currently what's happening is that electric vehicles are unaffordable. There are shortages and long wait times for a lot of manufacturers to get those cars.

I think the issue that the EVAS is trying to solve is that limited choice that exists.