Environment Committee on Dec. 11th, 2025

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

The MOU states that enforcement of the regulations will be suspended.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Yes. We can have agreements with each province. If they can show that they have another way of achieving the same results, we can suspend enforcement of the regulations. That is how the regulations work.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

In your opinion, if the regulations are suspended, how will Alberta be able to achieve the same result?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

It's up to Alberta to work with us and show us that it has another way of achieving this.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I gather that you have no idea how they plan to achieve the same results.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

No, but the regulations will not be suspended as long as there is no agreement.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

You have discussions and you write in the MOU that you will suspend the regulations, but you have no idea how they will be replaced or how the same objectives will be achieved.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

That is not what I'm saying.

If a province shows us that it can achieve the same results, it can use another system that works. To do that, they truly have to achieve the same results. This MOU allows us to suspend enforcement of the regulations and it can apply to all the provinces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Thank you.

Mrs. Anstey, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Thank you, Minister, for appearing today.

As the minister well knows, I often advocate for the constituents in my riding in Newfoundland and Labrador, particularly as it relates to our offshore oil and gas sector, which has had some tremendous challenges over the last number of years.

I've reached out to them in preparation for this meeting today, asking them what their perspective was as professionals within this industry. I'm glad that you made the comments about competitiveness, because that's extremely important to the industry. They're warning that the proposed $170 carbon price is completely out of step with international norms. For example, the U.S., Russia and China have none of these industrial carbon prices at all.

How does your department reconcile these massive competitiveness gaps with the claim that you want to remain a desirable jurisdiction for offshore development?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I think it's really important that we all bring the voices from our communities forward. Certainly, over the past years, especially in my work as parliamentary secretary for natural resources, I worked on the agreements with Newfoundland and Labrador for the development of offshore wind, under the agreements of the Atlantic accords.

I'm saying there are many different opportunities for Newfoundland and Labrador—

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Specifically, the offshore is very important. I know the people in my riding want to know the answer to this question.

Sure, that's great. We have to do all things, but specifically, I'm curious to know what your answer is on this industry and on this point.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

First of all, I'm not sure that any of us want to be using as our example of a competitor a country against which we have sanctions, like Russia.

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Okay, that's fair enough.

Guyana has $20, and they're one of their closer competitors, so we can use that one as an example. That's perfect. I'm happy to bring another country into that equation.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

There are two pieces that I would say to that.

We are now, in the budget, committed to actually working on the trajectory of the headline price for the next decades, past 2030. That one is part of a conversation that we'll have to have with provinces, territories and industry.

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

What I'm really hearing you say is that the government is open to modifying those rates in the face of provinces coming back and saying that this is completely unreasonable given the competitiveness of the countries that we're competing with. Is that correct?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

What I was saying is that we are going to be working on what the trajectory is for the future decades, and we will take in advice, but I actually—

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Does that component matter? I'm sorry. I have limited time.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I'm just disagreeing with you that it makes the industry less competitive. We are in a world where, when we look at the different markets that we are trying to sell into, there are big trading blocs that have border adjustment mechanisms. It's something we're going to have to face as we sell into these different markets.

I would add that, in a world where we see people moving toward low carbon right across, it would be in the best interest of all of our industries to be the lowest carbon emitter for whatever product they sell.

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

That's fair enough, but they just want to know this: Are you going to consider this in terms of your decisions moving forward, and bring in that price? If they remain uncompetitive.... You said in your opening statement that competitiveness is important. Are these concerns going to be given consideration as you move forward, or are they just completely dismissed? Does it not matter? These are industry experts. Again, it's a very important industry to my riding, so I want to know, is it going to be given consideration? Will you walk those rates back, based on these concerns that are coming forward?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

We always work with all of the provinces and territories on how we move policies forward, but I also point out that I am not agreeing that it makes the industry less competitive. That is where we disagree. Markets around the world are putting on carbon prices, and they're looking for low-carbon products.

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Okay, so the proponents are like.... They're just wrong. You're just completely dismissing their concerns.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I'm disagreeing with the way you're framing it, but I am also saying that I'm open to talking—

[Carol Anstey, Conservative, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Those are their words, not mine.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

—with everyone about it.