Evidence of meeting #21 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was price.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Liberal
Liberal
Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, thank you for being here with us today.
I find it interesting that you mentioned the motion moved by the Conservatives this week. They included terms from the MOU with Alberta, but completely omitted industrial carbon pricing, which is rather convenient for them. The Bloc Québécois, the Green Party, and all the Liberals voted against the motion, and even five members of the Conservative Party did not vote. I find it interesting that this is a significant defeat for the Conservatives, but I do not see any plan among my colleagues that addresses climate change.
My question is the following: Could you give examples of companies that are investing in clean technologies as a result of a move toward predictable carbon pricing?
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
First, if a country wants to be competitive on a global scale, it is important for it to have a plan to combat climate change. Industrial carbon pricing is a key part of this.
Here is what I found incredible this week. Although our MOU with the province of Alberta includes industrial carbon pricing, the Conservatives could not even include those words in their motion. In fact, everywhere in the media, and even during question period, we heard them speak out against it, even though the system we created is based on Alberta's. I found it extremely interesting that, according to the province of Alberta, industrial carbon pricing is one of the measures we need to take in order to gain access to the markets we want to reach. At the same time, I find it sad that the Conservatives did not include these words, because the Premier of Alberta made it very clear that this system came from her province and she emphasized how important it was for Alberta.
I have some examples for you.
The first one took place a little closer to my region. Redpath Sugar, in downtown Toronto, made significant changes to reduce its carbon footprint. It replaced the energy it used to produce its sugar.
I spoke with people at the company, who told me that they did indeed make these changes because of carbon pricing. The company received federal funding to help it make this change. It's a win-win situation. It's also beneficial for the company because it wants to show that it is willing to do what it takes to reduce its carbon footprint.
Let me share another example to do with this company. I know I don't have much time left to speak, so this will be my last point. The company even replaced the lights throughout its factory. The workers there told me that this created a safer working environment.
All these measures reduce the company's carbon footprint and energy costs. That's good for the company. At the same time, people who worked in the factory said that it created a safer workplace.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Minister, I will ask you to give me brief answers.
Is the federal government prepared to apply the safety net on carbon pricing for provinces that do not have an equivalent?
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
We said that in budget 2025.
We said it would be in a transparent and prompt fashion.
That is the word, but it is preferable to work with the provinces in each case.
Bloc
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
We have said that yes, we prefer to work with the provinces.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
You did not apply it in the case of Saskatchewan, which eliminated its carbon pricing. It is therefore no longer consistent with the Canadian model.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
As I said, we are prepared to do so, but we prefer to find solutions—
Bloc
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
We are prepared to do so, but we prefer to find solutions with the provinces. We are talking with them to come up with solutions.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
You will be prepared to do so for Alberta as well. Is that correct?
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
That is the case for all the provinces. They can have their own system, but we are prepared—
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you.
Earlier, when you were talking about the clean electricity regulations, you said that GHG emissions are estimated to be reduced by 180 million tonnes by 2050.
The MOU with Alberta clearly states, “Suspend immediately…pending a new carbon pricing agreement, which includes the electricity sector”.
In your opinion, if we replace the regulations with carbon pricing, how much per tonne should the price be to achieve the equivalent in terms of emissions reductions?
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
That's not the only thing the MOU covers. We need to be very clear about that. Yes, it covers carbon pricing, but it also covers other measures.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
The MOU states, “pending a new carbon pricing agreement” for electricity.
How much would it cost per tonne to achieve equivalent emissions reductions through carbon pricing compared to the regulations?
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Is it $400 a tonne, for instance? How much per tonne? Do you have those numbers?
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
No, I would like you to answer my question, Minister.
Do you have the numbers? How much would it cost per tonne to achieve the equivalent emissions reduction achieved under the regulations? Do you not have those numbers?
Liberal
Shannon Miedema Liberal Halifax, NS
I have a point of order.
I think it would be respectful for my colleague to allow the minister to answer the question he's asking.
Thank you.
