Evidence of meeting #24 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was housing.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Do you mean to make it available to Canadians?
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
In the market?
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It's quite a process.
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It's very difficult for me to give a date.
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Perfect.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
How much money is there currently in emergency and disaster management in Canada? Do you have a forecast of the needs you will have in five years?
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
We can get back to you in writing on that. Since the money is spread across a number of programs, I want to make sure I give you the right information. We can send you an answer in writing with the details of the budget.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Okay.
Are you considering different risk scenarios related to global warming? For example, global warming is currently on track to reach 2.5°C. It's 5°C for Canada. How much would it cost if more is done, if less is done? Do you have those scenarios?
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
We actually have a team of scientists. Engineers are working on modelling and are establishing hypotheses or scenarios, but we don't have the exact details. I think we all recognize that climate change is an important factor in what we're experiencing today in Canada.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
So you don't have any forecasts on the amount of money you will need in five years to properly manage emergencies based on the various scenarios.
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I'll be honest with you, it's very difficult. We can simulate the effects of climate change, but we can't simulate an earthquake.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
I'm talking about global warming. Some impacts are actually very well modelled. It's not perfect, but are there orders of magnitude?
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes. I would say that we have an idea based on the last few years that we've experienced. For example, for forest fires, we can use 2023 and 2025 to do scientific calculations.
If you're looking for information on the cost of those impacts, we can prepare an exact answer for floods and wildfires.
Liberal
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr Chair.
Mr. DeFazio, in a previous life, I was a councillor for a small first nations band, and I was a chief councillor as well. Housing was one of the top topics, annually and on a daily basis, for a variety of reasons.
In terms of looking at the data, you're talking about the number of issues you're looking at, including in first nations communities. What we're talking about here is a variety of topics, including insurance and protecting from climate change events.
Are there numbers in terms of on-reserve housing that reflect the insurance issues that first nations' band councils or leadership have on reserve?
Director, Risk Management, Strategy and Products, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
I wouldn't have any of that information, sir.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Ms. El Bied, would you be aware of any numbers in terms of on-reserve insurance premiums or coverage—or whether it's covered?
What I'm getting at is that it's a complicated issue on reserve. A band council is basically in charge of and responsible for all housing, whether it be through CMHC or Indian Affairs. It's very vague and confusing as to whether it's up to the band council to cover the insurance or whether it's up to the individual.... I don't want to say “homeowner” because it's a complicated issue.
Are there numbers in terms of insurance coverage for those living on reserve?
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Thank you for the question, although I don't have the answer. We can work with Indigenous Services Canada to try to get you the answer. However, if you are asking me, as the lead for this file within Public Safety Canada, I have to say that we don't have that information available.
Conservative
Ellis Ross Conservative Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Okay. I ask because probably every reserve across Canada faces the same situation. It's a matter of the relationship with the government versus the relationship with whoever is occupying the house at the time, and it's transitioning. There are a number of bands that are actually signing agreements with banks that allow mortgages to be approved on reserve. However, you can't own the land base, so I suspect that somehow the bank is putting into place some type of agreement that talks about insurance coverage.
Are any of the panel witnesses aware of this arrangement?
No. That's fine. I know that a lot of people aren't aware of these issues facing first nations on reserve.
Ms. El Bied, you talked briefly about the flooding in the Fraser Valley. Is there any conversation about what will be happening internationally in terms of the flooding issues happening in the Fraser Valley, specifically in Abbotsford? We know the history of that area. We know about the drainage. However, we haven't heard too much in terms of how this would be resolved with our neighbours south of the border.
Director General, Policy and Outreach, Emergency Management Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes, I know I mentioned that briefly in my opening remarks.
This is something that we are taking into account in building this new program and policy for flood insurance. As to how that would work, I would say that we're still at the early stage of developing this policy, but I hear your point. It's very important.
