Evidence of meeting #27 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Liberal
Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Can I ask that we perhaps release the witnesses and then go to the consent request?
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
The reason I ask is that if there isn't consent, we might as well get another round of questions in.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I would prefer UC, of course. This is a collegial committee.
Liberal
Eric St-Pierre Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Yes, I have a follow-up question. I'm curious about the rationale for quarterly appearances. I'm seeing here that the quarterly appearances continue for the duration of the current Parliament.
I'm curious to hear you on the rationale for quarterly appearances and if you have any cost estimate for what that would be.
Conservative
David Bexte Conservative Bow River, AB
The rationale is simple. The Major Projects Office is a keystone feature of the moving at generational speed to transform the economy, so we expect that there would be quarterly progress of some significance. We want to be able to see that, measure it, evaluate it, critique it and urge it along at unbelievable speed. As far as cost goes, it would be a factor of the same cost we've experienced in the past, but I did no particular incremental analysis.
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I just want some clarity.
If, as per the Standing Orders, the motion technically has not been moved, then we're not really debating anything right now, unless we move to immediately vote, which would be dilatory. We could vote on unanimous consent for the motion to be allowed to be moved, and then we could debate. Then we could excuse the witnesses. I think we just have to get our order of process here correct because right now we're just talking, and it's not actually debate.
Liberal
Bruce Fanjoy Liberal Carleton, ON
To move major projects at speed doesn't involve regular updates, quarterly updates, to this committee. We need to remember that we're one committee. Major projects touch several committees, so I don't see the value in this. I think, on an as-needed basis, Ms. Farrell has been generous with her time. I expect her to continue to be generous when we need her, but I think we should respect the fact that she doesn't need to be here quarterly.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Angelo Iacono
We shall carry on with the witnesses.
I'm sorry about that.
Mr. Bexte, I think your time has been completed.
Now we'll move to Ms. Miedema.
Liberal
Shannon Miedema Liberal Halifax, NS
Thank you very much.
Thank you, witnesses, for coming and taking the time today. We really appreciate it.
It's so fascinating. The scope of this study, really, is the role between the federal government, the provinces and territories, the local governments and the insurance sector, but then we layer on the United States. I think there are some really good examples of partnerships with the United States when it comes to watershed management. The Great Lakes is an example. I'm from Halifax. There have been a lot of great efforts along the eastern seaboard and in the Maritimes. I hope that ends up happening for the Red River basin also. I know it takes a long, concerted effort.
I'm wondering, Ms. Trowell, if you have anything to comment with regard to insurance. Has the Red River basin flooded at any time recently or in the last number of years? If so, how have people been able to repair and rebuild from that?
North Basin Manager, Red River Basin Commission
I don't know how specifically I can go, but the most recent flood was in 2021. Morris, Manitoba, was essentially a floating island with one route in and out. Highway 75, our main highway to the U.S., was shut down, which affected a lot of trucks.
In terms of insurance, though, I don't have any specifics to contribute there.
Liberal
Shannon Miedema Liberal Halifax, NS
Do you have any details on how many properties were impacted—that is, the scale of the impact of that flood in 2021?
North Basin Manager, Red River Basin Commission
I don't have specifics. I don't want to say that it wasn't too bad. There were evacuations, and there was some damage. However, overall, I think we're much more prepared for high water conditions than we used to be. There's always room for improvement, but it wasn't, overall, as catastrophic as it could have been if Morris didn't have its ring dike or things like that in place.
Liberal
Shannon Miedema Liberal Halifax, NS
Okay. Thanks very much.
Mr. Boudreault, I have a question for you.
You talk about innovative insurance structures. I have been in conversation with some folks from Co-operators who have been trying to figure out if we could do infrastructure resilience and climate adaptation projects using a P3 model—where you could leverage public dollars, bring in private-sector investment and bring in the insurers—and if there was some way to actually make that make sense from a dollars-and-cents perspective.
Is that the kind of thing you're talking about, or do you have other ideas around what innovative insurance structures we need to be able to protect everybody in extreme weather events in Canada?
Professor, Department of Mathematics, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual
That's a good question. That's an example that could probably work locally. I don't know how easy it would be to expand it across the country.
What I am talking about mostly is making sure that the economic incentives are there to reduce the risk. For example, the recent reform of the DFAA with the “build back better” component is a good approach, but there's definitely more that we can do. That's why I suggested the idea of a Crown corporation to support provinces in the industry in pooling the risk and risk transfer. I also think being able to price the risk is an important incentive to reduce the risk in the end. That's what I discussed.
I'm also a big proponent of resilience grades or certificates. Being able to signal to the market that the community or individuals have taken the appropriate adaptation measures to reduce the risk is also very important. We heard about the codes a couple of minutes ago. This is important. It's a signal that homeowners and communities could send to reduce the risk.
Liberal
Shannon Miedema Liberal Halifax, NS
I think that's a great idea. Thank you so much for that.
Mr. Martin, my husband's family is from the Netherlands. Miedema is a name from Friesland. I've been there.
I have a quick question for you. The way they've had to protect themselves from flooding there is very different. There is a lot of hard infrastructure and a very manufactured feeling. That is not to say it's not beautiful there, but in Canada, we have all these natural spaces. It's very different.
Did you research nature-based solutions or different approaches that would make sense for Canada versus the Netherlands?
As an Individual
On the east side of the Netherlands, the one city we looked at is Nijmegen. In the east of the country, they're just finishing up a 365-million euro project to widen the river through the downtown of a city. It took a lot of buyouts and a lot of managed retreat. It was a huge infrastructure project that worked very well.