Environment Committee on June 9th, 2026

[Chris Malette, Liberal, Bay of Quinte, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Mr. Leslie, go through the chair, please.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I move to adjourn debate on this issue, Madam Chair.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

We will vote on Mr. Leslie's—

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Go ahead, Mr. Bonin.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair, but I think it's still important to build on what my Conservative colleague just said.

I consider it completely shameful that we're using the speaking time of two expert witnesses on climate change, who came to speak to us about these issues, to tell us how problematic the situation in Canada is and how it could be improved. Instead, we're laughing and using that time precisely to prevent them from telling us the truth. Frankly, I find this very low. I'm very disappointed by this attitude. We've really hit rock bottom here. Seriously, this is completely unacceptable—

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

I'm sorry, Mr. Bonin, but we can't debate Mr. Leslie's motion.

We need to vote on Mr. Leslie's motion to adjourn debate.

(Motion negatived)

Go ahead, Mr. Leslie.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I'm flabbergasted. What is there to debate on this issue? If you want to pass this, sure, go ahead. I understand that you don't appreciate the witnesses' testimony here, or is there some other explanation as to why this would suddenly be moved just before the end of June, despite our having a private member's bill that we're studying on the 16th and then coming back immediately to finish clause-by-clause?

It is so transparent. It is shameless that you're trying to muzzle our witnesses. I would just ask for an immediate vote. Pass this or whatever you think you need to do. You have your majority. You're going to do it anyway. Just because you don't like this testimony....

This is something I never thought I would see. I thought you might do something like this in camera, but to be televised and doing it is just embarrassing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Is there any further debate on the motion?

Mr. Fanjoy.

[Bruce Fanjoy, Liberal, Carleton, ON]

I need to respond to this.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

How much time will you take? You'll take a long time, I'll bet.

[Bruce Fanjoy, Liberal, Carleton, ON]

No, you've taken the time. I was using my time. I don't think either of our witnesses needs you to speak for them. I think they would welcome this study if it ultimately turned into a program that helped us get to our numbers. This motion has been on notice.

Mr. Leslie, this entire past year you have fought every single measure to address this issue, so you can get off your high horse.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Mr. Fanjoy, go through the chair, please.

[Tim Watchorn, Liberal, Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC]

You've asked no questions of the witnesses—none.

[Bruce Fanjoy, Liberal, Carleton, ON]

If there's no further debate, we'll go to a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

You have your hand up, Mr. Ross.

[Ellis Ross, Conservative, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Chair, it's a motion on retrofitting for energy efficiency. When we're talking about it, we hear it from the government all the time that this is an existential crisis—climate change, the Paris accord—yet we have members who resigned from the net-zero committee coming to explain why they lost faith in the climate action plan in Canada.

We hear it all the time that this is one of the single biggest issues facing Canadians, if not our global partners, when talking about clean energy, fossil fuels, you name it. What do we do? We waste time and muzzle our witnesses with a motion to look at heating efficiencies for houses.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Ellis Ross, Conservative, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is this really a big issue, as the government has been saying for the last how many years, or is this just an attempt to muzzle our witnesses, who are giving what we—as well as our colleagues down the way here—see as extremely important witness testimony?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Shall we continue and do the vote that so we can get back to our witnesses?

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you very much, Mr. Fanjoy.

We will now turn to Monsieur Bonin.

Mr. Bonin, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Donner, you spoke about the risks to the Canadian economy, among other things. We're seeing a global shift toward electrification. We're also seeing that new technologies are making it possible to reduce costs related to energy, oil and gas.

In this context, could you tell us more about why it's more advantageous for people to make that transition and move toward electrification?

If Canada doesn't get on board with this shift, this global wave, don't we risk falling significantly behind from a competitive standpoint, given a higher cost of living for households and, of course, greater environmental impacts?

[Dr. Simon Donner]

Thank you for the question.

Obviously, I'm a scientist—a natural scientist, not an economist—but because of working with the NZAB for so long, I've followed the research on the economics and what's happening globally for the past five or six years. One of the things that I think is just so important for Canadians—for everyone here in the committee but also for Canadians writ large—to understand is that the conversation we have in Canada, in the media, etc., about energy is divorced from the international conversation. Anyone who has attended an international climate conference and sat through a lot of sessions would see this.

For the International Energy Agency, which is a very conservative group, for years their fossil fuel projections typically have overestimated fossil fuel demand. In their scenario that's on stated policies, they have oil demand peaking by 2030, and they have gas demand peaking by 2035. Now, that is just based on existing policies that governments have going on around the world. That was from last year. It does not include the impacts of the war. As I've mentioned, they tend to overestimate fossil fuel use.

That is the reason that bodies like the NZAB were warning that an overreliance on oil and gas for the future of Canada is going to be a risk. Trying to make the major projects heavily reliant on a pipeline or new LNG facilities.... They all risk being stranded assets. It's not just an economic issue. It's a jobs issue, because we make people's lives dependent on something that maybe isn't going to survive going forward.

When I was a student back in the 1990s when I was first in graduate school—which I started in the mid-1990s—and I was studying climate change, we were told that solar and wind.... I'll pause there. I'll just say that there's a revolution on clean energy going on and Canada is not a part of it, and it's a problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bonin.

We'll now turn to Ms. May and Mr. Johns for five minutes.