Environment Committee on Oct. 20th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Good afternoon, everybody. We will begin.

This is the 50th meeting of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development.

For those who are here in person, please follow the health and safety guidelines at your table to prevent any audio or feedback incidents for our interpreters.

I have a reminder for members. If you haven't already done so, please send your recommendations for the carbon pricing report to the clerk as soon as possible. I think that only one member has submitted any recommendations so far. They need to finalize that report for us to review and table.

I have a little update on travelling to COP31 in Turkey. We had budget approval at the Liaison Committee's subcommittee, but we needed approval by all parties in the House. The Conservative Party did not give their approval. Sadly, we will not be travelling to Turkey as a committee.

Mr. St‑Pierre, do you have a question?

[Eric St-Pierre, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm just curious if you can elaborate on why the Conservatives turned down this travel request. Will the Conservatives be travelling?

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

First of all, I was not in the chamber whenever this vote came to pass, but I'm curious. Maybe we could look to the clerk to find out the rules on when a “no” is offered in the House of Commons if it is ever attributed to any one party. Certainly if the chair brings it up at a future meeting and attributes it to one party without any evidence of that being true...because unanimous consent requires anybody to just say “no”.

I'm curious. Is that a rule that's generally followed in the House of Commons?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Mr. Leslie, I'm not sure. I'm just giving an update because we had planned to travel as a committee to COP and we are not doing that.

My understanding is that there was not unanimous consent and—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

That's where the sentence stops.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

—we can proceed—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

That's where the sentence stops: There was no unanimous consent.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Eric St-Pierre, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Come on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

I wasn't informed if that was—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

On the next unanimous consent motion I move, we'll see who answers and says “no”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Order, please. We can circle back on that.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Any MP can say “no”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you, Mr. Leslie.

We need a budget approval for the study that we are on our fourth day of today, which is the home energy efficiency study. It's in the amount of $18,600.

Does the committee agree to adopt this budget for the study we are currently in?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you. That's adopted.

We are going to continue with witnesses for both hours of the energy efficiency study today.

We have three witnesses for the first hour.

In person, we have Isabelle Demers, vice-president, strategic development, public affairs and innovation, from the Association des professionnels de la construction et de l'habitation du Québec. We also have with us in person, from the Canadian Propane Association, Shannon Watt and Jeff Daley. Shannon is the president and CEO, and Jeff is a designer in heating, ventilation and air conditioning. Online, we have David Saulnier, the president of JD Composites.

Welcome, witnesses. Thank you for joining us. You all have up to five minutes per organization to provide an opening statement. I don't have my time card today, but I will give you a little flag if you're heading over your five minutes.

We'll begin with Ms. Demers.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Isabelle Demers, Vice-President, Strategic Development, Public Affairs and Innovation, Association des professionnels de la construction et de l'habitation du Québec]

Thank you so much.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you for welcoming us here today and for allowing the APCHQ—the Association of Construction and Housing Professionals of Quebec—to contribute to your work on renovations aimed at improving energy efficiency in the housing sector.

My name is Isabelle Demers and I am vice-president of Strategic Development, Public Affairs and Innovation.

Founded in 1961, the APCHQ represents and supports more than 28,000 businesses in the residential construction and renovation sector in Quebec. It is also the largest voluntary membership association in the construction sector in Canada.

Our message today is simple. To reduce energy costs in a lasting way, buildings must be renovated as a whole, starting with the envelope. This also has the added benefit of preserving existing homes in good condition for the households who live in them.

In this regard, the announcement made by Prime Minister Carney on October 8, which allocates $2 billion to carry out renovation work on 1 million homes, is excellent news.

The national heat pump rebate program is aimed at 800,000 homeowners. Furthermore, the funding mechanisms will support the renovation of around 280,000 rental properties.

With this significant announcement, the government recognizes that the renovation of the existing housing stock is at the heart of the energy transition, and is thus championing a recommendation long advocated by the APCHQ.

These measures meet real and significant needs and must be part of a broader strategy. A high-performance heat pump does not correct the heat loss of a poorly insulated or leaky building. Beyond installing a piece of equipment, it is the building's performance that must be bettered. Otherwise, the heat pump efficiently heats the outdoors.

Yearly, the energy output of two Hydro-Québec dams—or the equivalent of the electricity consumption of roughly 850,000 households—is being wasted through the walls of the unrenovated homes in Quebec. Energy retrofits of the existing building stock, mainly buildings constructed before 1980, could generate electricity savings of 11 to 15 terawatt hours, which could be resold at a profit to energy-intensive sectors.

Gains are to be made everywhere in Canada. Indeed, according to StatsCan, nearly half of the homes in Canada were built before 1981.

These renovations reduce heating bills and emissions. They improve comfort during heatwaves and cold spells, strengthen the resilience of homes in the face of extreme weather events, and allow households to save on energy costs. How can this be achieved? By insulating the building envelope, ensuring it is airtight, and replacing the doors and windows in old buildings.

The APCHQ recommends the introduction of stable, multi-year support that would facilitate significant upscaling through a combination of three measures: targeted grants to reduce the net cost of the work; loans to help households overcome the barrier of upfront costs, for example through a PACE-style approach; and a refundable tax credit for energy-efficient renovation.

Energy-efficient renovation is not only an energy, climate and affordability policy, but also a productivity policy.

The APCHQ is, of course, ready to work with the committee and the government to develop a sustainable, simple and tailored approach to ensure scaling up with superior results.

Thank you for your attention. I will, of course, be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you very much.

We'll now turn to Ms. Watt for five minutes.

[Shannon Watt, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Propane Association]

Good afternoon.

My name is Shannon Watt, president and CEO of the Canadian Propane Association. I want to thank you for inviting us to today's meeting.

The CPA represents 400 members from coast to coast to coast. They are composed of producers, wholesale marketers, transporters, retail marketers and manufacturers of appliances, cylinders and equipment.

I am pleased to have Jeff Daley join us today. Jeff is a propane and HVAC specialist. For the past 15 years, Jeff's been with Bryan's Fuel of Orangeville, Ontario. He is BCIN-certified and does heat loss-gain drawings, duct design, hydronic design and geothermal designs for permits. He will be available to answer questions about retrofits and hybrid energy.

All Canadians should have access to an affordable, lower-emissions energy choice. Perhaps more than any other energy source, propane ensures that Canadians, no matter where they live, have the energy they need when and where they need it, and at a price they can afford. This is particularly true in regions beyond the natural gas grid, where many homeowners are still using heating oil. In fact, propane serves many of the communities the national electricity strategy risks leaving behind.

Propane provides critical energy when extreme events occur. During winter storms or weather disruptions, propane space heating and backup generation protect homes. A policy built exclusively around electrification risks stranding rural, remote and indigenous communities with fewer affordable energy options, higher utility rates and increased energy insecurity.

Regarding retrofits, propane provides substantial savings relative to heating oil, costing less than half the price of heating oil across much of Canada. Supporting conversions from heating oil to high-efficiency propane delivers immediate financial relief to families facing high heating bills.

Full heat-pump retrofits often require rural and older homes to overhaul their electrical infrastructure by upgrading 60-amp or 100-amp service panels to 200-amp service, which frequently costs between $5,000 to $10,000 in out-of-pocket expenses before a heat pump can even be installed. Propane systems eliminate these expensive electrical upgrade barriers with hybrid propane and heat pump systems delivering the best of both worlds.

Cold snaps drastically reduce the efficiency of many electric air-source heat pumps, triggering expensive electric resistance backup heating that could spike winter utility bills. Hybrid systems combine an electric heat pump for moderate days with high-efficiency propane furnaces for deep sub-zero temperatures to keep homes warm and energy bills manageable.

We have seen proven policy models at the provincial and territorial levels. Ontario's energy for generations plan, through its home renovation savings program, already includes rebates for hybrid propane and heat pump systems. Yukon has introduced the dependable grid program that focuses on practical measures that deliver the biggest impact on peak winter demand and household resilience. It features dual-fuel heating systems, such as those pairing an energy-efficient electric heat pump with a propane backup system during extreme cold.

Federal retrofit programs such as the Canada greener homes affordability program should adopt these practical models and make hybrid propane systems fully eligible for federal incentives. Just last month, in its report to Parliament regarding the 2026 budget, the Standing Committee on Finance endorsed the CPA's position and recommended that the government “Expand lower-emission energy access in Indigenous, rural and remote communities by ensuring affordable energy choice through the inclusion of propane in federal rural energy assistance programs.”

Including propane will also improve emissions. At 72 grams of carbon dioxide equivalent per megajoule, propane emits about 30% fewer emissions than heating oil. Going further, in western Canada, the propane industry is producing renewable propane with emissions as low as 12 grams of CO2 equivalent per megajoule.

While the national electrification strategy includes a dedicated subsection recognizing natural gas's strategic role in Canada's energy mix, propane, an energy that can go where natural gas can't, is treated solely as a fuel to be displaced.

In the end, the fairest way to provide affordable low-emissions energy is to take an agnostic approach to the type of affordable low-emissions energy that is used. In other words, provide all Canadians with affordable energy choices, and that includes propane.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you very much, Ms. Watt.

We'll now turn to Mr. Saulnier, online, for five minutes, please.

[David Saulnier, President, JD Composites]

Thank you, Madam Chair and all members present.

Good afternoon. My name is David Saulnier. I'm president of JD Composites in Meteghan, Nova Scotia.

We started our composite company in 2018. We build composite structures, both residential and commercial, out of 100% recycled polyethylene terephthalate, otherwise known as PET plastic. We apply fibreglass skins on each side, creating a SIP, or a sandwich construction as it's known in the marine industry, where I cut my teeth in this.

As commercial boatbuilders using these materials, we thought it was overdue to bring to land the high-strength, low-weight properties that commercial boats have on the unforgiving oceans. We thought we'd bring this onto land and exploit and maximize returns for homeowners. Obviously, in an increasingly uncertain climate, especially in Nova Scotia, it keeps getting damper, wetter and colder as well.

Exterior composite panels could be and can be mechanically attached to existing homes, creating a proven exterior shell that needs no siding. Controlling the environment inside a home is key, and composites are an extremely good fit for this. Being inorganic as a material, it's nothing that was ever alive. It's different from wood. It's immune to water ingress and highly preventative for mould growth.

Also, these homes and structures become multi-generational in their proven durability and low maintenance. Obviously, a lot of people haven't heard of sandwich construction using PET yet. It's a new technology on land but not really in the marine boatbuilding world, where it's been proven for many years.

Hopefully we can prove its use and positive impact on new construction and, obviously, on refits as an exterior shell on existing homes.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you, Mr. Saulnier.

We will now turn to questions from members, and we'll begin with Mr. Leslie for six minutes.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here, everyone.

I'd like to start with you, Ms. Demers.

Our committee has heard that households in one study received only about 60% of the predicted energy savings that the claims that were made said they would. Your association proposes linking incentives to actual gains. Will you support verifying those gains after the work rather than paying rebates and simply assuming that the forecast was correct?

[Isabelle Demers]

We propose to put in place numerous actions that would scale up the renovation needed so that we can get the energy savings that we should be targeting.

One of the challenges is that when there are multiple programs, making it possible to demonstrate the impact of their addition implies having to fill out a lot of paperwork. One of the issues is that they don't always confirm or compare the same elements. It would be good to have something from the get-go, but also at the end. Once the renovation is done, we should be able to see in a very specific way through the electricity bill that there was a direct impact on the efficiency of the building. It should also be targeted that way.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I completely agree with you. All that matters at the end of the day is that the bill actually goes down. I think you outlined correctly what some of those challenges are.

My question to you is this: What should we be measuring, if anything, beyond the total energy costs for the home? Who should be verifying that, what role does the homeowner have to play and when would they be receiving that information to confirm it all?