Environment Committee on Oct. 20th, 2026

[Wade Grant, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

If I have four seconds at the end, I'll pass it over to you.

I'm also thinking about my colleague who's not here tonight, Mr. Ross, because he talks about growing up in a rural and remote community. I grew up on a first nation in an urban setting, but I have a lot of family who live in rural and remote areas, especially my stepfather, who lives about a two-and-a-half-hour drive northwest of Prince George in a very remote area. There are still many communities that are on diesel and those types of things and are trying to transition off of that.

Ms. Watt, what role do you believe propane can play in reducing emissions from residential heating, particularly in those rural and remote areas where there may be limited options for energy efficiency?

[Shannon Watt]

About 200,000 Canadians live in the roughly 280 off-grid, off-natural-gas-pipeline communities across Canada that must rely on their local energy grids. The important thing is that those communities have to decide their energy for themselves, and they need to have all the choices put before them.

It could be a complement. It could be a renewable backed up by propane. It could be diesel. They have to decide for themselves what their energy security and energy resiliency is going to be, because when the lights go out, when it's -40°C wherever you are, nobody's coming to help. You have to figure it out yourself, and you need to know that you can trust your system and have the resources and the capability to do so.

I will say this about propane: One of its strengths is that it can sit there. You can have propane sit there for decades. We have examples of containers sitting for two decades and getting fired up without a problem. This is an energy that can be there when the lights go out. It's a great backup. It's a great primary fuel, of course, but it's a great backup fuel, especially for communities that might need that energy to show up on days when the lights go out.

[Wade Grant, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Daley, last week I was able to visit the beautiful town of Manotick with my friend Mr. Fanjoy and meet Manotick Heating & Cooling, a company that's based there. From a practical HVAC design perspective, what technical challenges would most often prevent homeowners from installing heat pumps to other high-efficiency heating systems?

[Jeff Daley]

In addition to the electrical challenges we've already discussed, in some cases the ductwork is not appropriately sized for a heat pump to carry the entire load without a backup. In some cases, the heat pump size must be smaller than would otherwise be optimal, in which case there would be a requirement for a substantial backup.

[Wade Grant, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I do have reading glasses coming. It's sometimes difficult for me to read my questions off the paper.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Wade Grant, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Saulnier, what you've discussed has intrigued me. I grew up on the water. I went fishing on a boat with my father for a number of years.

How can innovations in building materials and prefabricated construction help make energy retrofits faster, more affordable and more scalable?

[David Saulnier]

It can be by introducing better materials that are suited for the Canadian environment.

I find that composites excel in many areas. Because they are inorganic, there are no worries about anything rotting on you. Their weight-to-strength ratios are off the charts. If you have a green thumb and you want to think about anything sustainable, you are building with 100% recycled PET. All of the global companies put together are using 0.007% of it right now, so there's room for many companies like mine that want to use that material.

It has obviously proven its point commercially on the water. In a static environment like a home, it can become multi-generational very quickly, with low maintenance, and it can give you all the energy efficiencies you could care to mention.

[Wade Grant, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I thought about what you were talking about—being impermeable to water and whatnot. In a lot of communities I've visited, because of water damage, mould comes in. Is this something that could help combat that as well?

[David Saulnier]

Absolutely.

The PET I use is 100% closed-cell material. It's five-pound density foam clad with different laminates, depending on what I'm using it for, whether beams or roofs or walls. It's all built differently, but it's very sustainable and energy-efficient and very rot- and mould-resistant.

[Wade Grant, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you so much to all of our witnesses for their time and expertise today. We really appreciate it.

We will take a brief pause to switch to our next set of witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

For our second hour of witness testimony for the energy efficiency study, we welcome our three new witnesses, all in person.

We have Jana Elbrecht, senior policy adviser from Clean Energy Canada, as well as Vincent Moreau, general director of the Greater Montreal Climate Fund, and Aaron Thornell, manager, programs and operations, from the Ottawa Climate Action Fund.

Thank you very much for coming. You have up to five minutes to provide opening statements.

I will begin with you, Ms. Elbrecht. The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Jana Elbrecht, Senior Policy Advisor, Clean Energy Canada]

Thank you so much for having me.

Clean Energy Canada is a think tank based out of Simon Fraser University. We work to accelerate energy transition through research, policy and communications. I lead our work on household electrification, and I'm happy to answer any of your questions today on cost savings, effective policy design and consumer attitudes.

As electrification becomes an increasingly important national priority, we must acknowledge that many key decisions will happen at kitchen tables across the country. According to the IEA, households are already the main investors in energy efficiency worldwide, accounting for 70% of spending in the buildings sector. In Canada, households invested $59 billion in home renovations in 2025. Of course, some of that money would have gone to new kitchen countertops, but a lot of it flows into roofs, windows and new heating systems. We need to make sure that when households are making these spending decisions, the affordable, efficient and clean options are the easy choices.

This year, in response to rising fossil fuel costs, at least 25 countries around the world have accelerated policies to advance electrification. The EU published an electrification action plan, recognizing that electrification is the path to affordability, competitiveness and energy security.

Canadian households should reap the benefits alongside businesses and industries. Making homes more energy-efficient and switching to efficient electric technologies like heat pumps can reduce energy bills every month. Clean Energy Canada published an updated analysis this April that shows savings from electrifying a home, while dependent on the previous heating fuel and varying province by province, can save as much as $285 per month, and that is accounting for upfront as well as operating costs.

Now that oil prices have reached record highs, potential savings have increased dramatically. At the beginning of this year, when we estimated household savings for a single attached home in Nova Scotia, we found that such a household could save $610 in annual heating costs by switching from an oil furnace to a cold climate heat pump. Rerunning that analysis with current furnace oil prices, we find that the same household would save as much as $1,639 per year, an additional $1,000.

Retrofits and electrification also unlock benefits beyond savings. Fixing a drafty home increases everyday comfort. Also, in many parts of Canada, having an AC was not historically necessary, but hot summers have changed that. In B.C., which faced a deadly heat dome in 2021, fewer than half the households have access to cooling. A heat pump can provide that cooling and reduce health risks from overheating.

These are benefits that are not just hypothetical; they already are being experienced by Canadian households that have been able to invest in energy efficiency, including the 8% that currently have a heat pump. This winter, when we surveyed existing heat pump owners across Canada, 91% of them said they would recommend a heat pump to their friend or neighbour. The benefits they mentioned the most were lower bills, improved comfort and improved cooling.

Our research also shows that on top of savings for households, electrified technologies can be used by utilities to store energy or to spread demand away from peaks, offering cost-effective solutions to meet growing electricity demands and lower system costs.

However, as we all know, the biggest barrier for households to making energy efficiency upgrades is still upfront costs. When a furnace or a water heater breaks down, households or building owners often do not have the spare cash to opt for a more energy-efficient option if that option comes at a higher upfront cost, even if it will save money down the road.

The recently announced heat pump rebate is a great step in the right direction. In particular, the promise to process applications within 24 hours and to ensure that households receive that support within their decision window after a furnace breaks is a key improvement.

The government has committed to retrofitting one million homes, and this program will help us get close to installing one million new heat pumps, but the reality is that an estimated 11 million homes will need to be retrofitted across Canada. That includes electrification, but it also includes improving things like insulation and airtightness. To achieve that scale, it is crucial that we complement the rebate program with measures that offer longer-term certainty for the sector, cover a broader set of upgrades, unlock private sector dollars and set households up to make beneficial investments in their own homes.

Alongside other organizations, we recommend that in addition to continued funding of low-income and market development programs, the government adopt a green bank model in which the federal government works with financial institutions, utilities, fintechs and municipalities to provide financing solutions that meet households close to home and when they are making decisions about their next renovation or new heating system or installing central cooling for the first time.

I hope this study will open the discussion on what comes next.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you very much, Ms. Elbrecht.

I now give the floor to Mr. Moreau for five minutes.

[Vincent Moreau, General Director, Greater Montreal Climate Funds]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the members of the committee for inviting me.

As a regional climate institution, the Greater Montreal Climate Fund's mission is to accelerate the decarbonization of the entire greater Montreal metropolitan area by acting as a catalyst for climate finance. The Greater Montreal Climate Fund is a member of the Low-Carbon Cities Canada network, commonly known as the LC3, which helps cities and communities realize their potential for reducing carbon emissions. Since its creation, the network has mobilized over $150 million for this purpose.

According to the general consensus, we collectively have enough information today to justify the urgent need to modernize the residential housing stock, whether to ensure affordability by reducing building running costs, to cut energy consumption and thereby free up kilowatt-hours for the electrification needs of our economies of the future, or to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the fight against climate change. The technologies for improving the energy efficiency of our buildings are well established. Their effectiveness in reducing energy consumption and bills is also well established and recognized. Regulation is also a key lever for implementing and harmonizing the minimum renovation standards that must be met. However, major challenges remain. What is lacking to speed up renovation projects, particularly in the residential sector, is innovative financing combined with turnkey support.

By way of example, I would like to tell you briefly about MultiRés, a turnkey energy-efficient renovation program for owners of multi-unit residential buildings in the Montreal Metropolitan Community, which we have set up with Efficiency Capital, our private-sector partners. This program was specifically designed to overcome several obstacles faced by owners of multi-unit residential buildings, whether privately owned or social housing providers, such as co-operatives or non-profit housing organizations. The program provides funding and coordination for 100% of the renovation work while guaranteeing energy savings. This combination of funding and support thus lifts the burden from the shoulders of property owners, who have neither the time, nor the expertise, nor the teams in place, nor, very often, the financial resources required to manage a renovation project that is, nevertheless, absolutely essential.

MultiRés is the perfect example of a catalyzing public-private partnership, supported by structural funding mobilized through public money capitalized in a sustainable fund, which targets a residential market sector that is difficult to renovate. The Greater Montreal Climate Fund is contributing $1 million over five years, making nearly $70 million available to owners for their energy-efficiency renovations.

This type of financial leverage leads me to talk to you about climate finance innovation.

Public money and grants alone will not be able to finance the energy and ecological transition. Canada must find new financing mechanisms to enable the implementation of measures for a just and equitable energy transition. These mechanisms must ensure that government investment acts as a catalyst for private and philanthropic investors in order to meet the need for accelerated action towards decarbonization and resilience. This is at the heart of the mission of the Greater Montreal Climate Fund and LC3.

For the energy transition in buildings, several innovative funding models are already well established. I am thinking in particular of the PACE model, which was mentioned in discussions with several stakeholders.

Other models are yet to be tested. For example, the Greater Montreal Climate Fund is working to set up a bridging loan fund for major energy conversions, such as geothermal energy, to bridge the gap in capital required immediately, as public grants alone are insufficient to cover this gap or are only paid out once the conversion is complete.

Furthermore, financial innovation makes it possible to link funding mechanisms to a building's energy performance, thereby ensuring that the desired targets for energy efficiency and cost-effectiveness are met.

My point here is to demonstrate that public money can be used in a more sustainable way than through simple financial incentives, i.e., grants alone. When pooled within an endowment fund, as is the case with the Greater Montreal Climate Fund, it not only ensures the long-term sustainability of financial support through the returns generated, but also acts as a catalyst—by mitigating the associated risks—for innovative, tailor-made programs designed to accelerate existing transition pathways or to open up new, transformative avenues. It is in this spirit, moreover, that a budget request has been submitted to the government to extend the LC3's scope to other major urban centres in Canada in order to achieve the same impact.

In conclusion, I would say that, to accelerate residential renovation, we need to combine innovative financing, public and private capital, and turnkey support.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you very much, Mr. Moreau.

I'll turn now to Mr. Thornell for five minutes.

The floor is yours.

[Aaron Thornell, Manager, Programs and Operations, Ottawa Climate Action Fund]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, committee members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Aaron Thornell. I'm the manager of programs and operations for the Ottawa Climate Action Fund. OCAF is a non-profit based here in Ottawa, focused on reducing greenhouse gas emissions while fostering positive social and economic outcomes. We do so through a combination of granting, direct investing and programming. Like Mr. Moreau, OCAF is a member of the low-carbon cities Canada network. We've been grateful to be part of that network and learn from each other.

I first wish to commend the committee on its in-depth analysis of home energy efficiency retrofits for Canada's housing stock. I'll begin by echoing what other witnesses have said in previous meetings: When done well, energy efficiency policy is much more than climate policy. It is housing, public health, affordability and economic development policy all at once.

My first recommendation to the committee would be to highlight the need for alignment of federal programming and funding with provincial utility and municipal offerings. To illustrate this, I'll recount an experience from my previous role working at the City of Ottawa on the ongoing better homes Ottawa loan program. This municipally led program, which leverages the PACE financing model we've spoken about already several times during this meeting, was launched in Ottawa with the help of funding from the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. The City of Ottawa was able to provide 20-year interest-free loans to support deep home energy efficiency retrofits.

Out of the gate, the program's uptake was substantial, with program demand outstripping available funding within about three months. With an eye toward longer-term sustainability, the city approached private financiers to recapitalize the program, and ultimately pulled in $30 million from the Vancity Community Investment Bank to extend the program. Just two weeks later, however, the federal government announced the launch of the greener homes loan program, offering loans with 0% interest nationwide, which effectively undercut the offer the city had just secured.

While I'm not here to suggest that the greener homes loan program was a negative program overall—it spurred thousands of retrofits across the country—alignment between levels of government would have supported a more cohesive retrofit offering in the city of Ottawa, reduced confusion for the end-user and ultimately produced a more sustainable retrofit ecosystem here in the nation's capital.

My second recommendation, which others have mentioned before me, would be to shift away from the boom and bust cycle of incentives and grant programs. A move toward a financing-focused ecosystem for middle- and higher-income households and private sector operators would move Canada toward a more mature and sustainable energy retrofit ecosystem. As you have heard from others, such as Mr. Moreau and Brendan Haley from Efficiency Canada, we have examples of places like Australia and the United States from which to draw inspiration for these types of green bank models.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I would encourage the committee to consider ways in which federal efficiency policy and funding can complement the country's overarching housing goals. A key focus for OCAF is the intersection of affordable housing and climate action, particularly how retrofits can help preserve existing affordable housing stock, home to many of our most vulnerable residents. Here in Ottawa, analysis shows that for every one unit of affordable housing that is built, we lose 31 through demolition, rental increases and renovictions.

To this end, we recommend providing focused funding for non-market housing retrofits, specifically capital work, through the recapitalization of such programs as the Canada greener affordable housing program and the previously offered co-investment renewal and repair stream, both offered through CMHC. This should be accompanied by supports for housing providers to plan and tackle what can be complex and time-consuming projects. Where opportunities present themselves, combining this funding with the recently announced Canada housing acquisition fund would further enable timely retrofits for community housing providers at opportune times of turnover and ownership. Similarly, we've seen targeted incentives and low-interest loans to be better suited to private market affordable housing, sometimes referred to as naturally occurring affordable housing. This funding should continue and be accompanied, where appropriate, by tenant protection measures.

I'll conclude with this. It is critical that we preserve these affordable housing units and, more importantly, provide those living there with dignified, resilient and safe places to call home. As our climate continues to become more volatile and our affordable housing stock ages, ensuring that these homes are preserved and prepared is an opportunity that cannot be overlooked.

Thank you. I look forward to answering any questions from the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shannon Miedema]

Thank you very much, Mr. Thornell.

We will turn to questions from members. We'll start with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Leslie, you have six minutes, please.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all for being here in person today.

I'll start with you, Ms. Elbrecht. The federal government has signed agreements with almost all the provinces to deliver the Canada greener homes affordability program. In the province of Manitoba—I can't speak to others, as I've reviewed only Manitoba in detail—there are no safeguards on whether the homeowner could immediately sell their property.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. Should agreements with the provinces include safeguards to prevent the program from subsidizing house flipping incidentally?

[Jana Elbrecht]

That's a very good question.

I'll start by saying that we were really happy to see the launch of the greener homes affordability program, and we're hoping to see it in other provinces as well. Manitoba has been a real leader. The program specifically targets low-income households and households facing energy poverty. I'd be curious as to whether you have any sense of this being an actual risk that has been observed. I don't think there's a—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

That's fair enough in the Manitoba context. I know that other provinces aren't as income-tested. Manitoba has a fairly low income test to be eligible for that program, but I could see people who are thinking about downsizing their homes anyway saying, sure, they'll take the free government money, get an upgrade and then flip their house for more money. We're humans. That's probably going to happen. Building in a safeguard like that makes sense to me.

Moving on now, your April analysis found that a heat pump could cost more than natural gas in the Prairies. With the new heat pump rebate announced, will you be able to show which households now come out ahead after all costs and how much of that improvement comes from the equipment versus the taxpayer subsidy portion?

[Jana Elbrecht]

Absolutely.

When it comes to a comparison between natural gas and a heat pump, it's primarily about the ratio between the natural gas price and the electricity price, and the rebate doesn't change that. When we're talking about the prairie provinces, in most cases a natural gas furnace would still come out ahead, and it's important that we are honest about that.

That is compared to an air-source heat pump. That does not take into account a ground-source heat pump, which, again, Manitoba has a great program for. It is a very cost-effective solution.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

The geothermal is different. Yes, I agree.

You did a survey that found, as you mentioned, that 91% of participating owners would recommend a heat pump, but I'm curious as to how many of those respondents actually had some sort of independent verification of the bills of the installation and the before and after of their actual heating or cooling bills.

[Jana Elbrecht]

The survey was asking people about their experience. On the 91%, that is as self-reported: “Would you recommend this to your friend or a neighbour?” When asked what some of the benefits were, cost savings was one of them, but improved comfort and cooling were two other really big ones that half of respondents cited. There are many reasons to recommend something to a friend or neighbour.