Evidence of meeting #14 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I personally have not. I don't know if Lyne has.
4:25 p.m.
Director, Corporate Affairs, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
We receive a letter from the Speaker stating that he has transferred our estimates to Treasury Board. But the details as to whether or not he sought outside advice are not provided.
I know that when we provide our main estimates to him we have detailed notes on every increase or change within our budget requirements. We sometimes have two or three pages of information notes attached to our main estimates to explain some of the issues being raised. He makes his decision on that.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Under the statute, could the Speaker then communicate your request to Treasury Board at 10% less than you requested and offer you no explanation? Is that your understanding?
4:25 p.m.
Director, Corporate Affairs, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
He could, but normally if he is considering a 10% decrease he would come back to us and say, “Why are you asking for this? I'm considering that.” Then there would be an exchange of information at that level.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Understood. Thank you very much. I didn't want to belabour it, but it's an odd way of doing things and is certainly not the way the others operate. That's why I'm asking the questions.
Mr. Wallace.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
My next questions are really my own, just for edification. They do not reflect the party or the government. I just want to put that on the record.
I want to follow up on what you just said. It was very interesting to me, being new here. How many years have you been coming to this committee for supplementary requests, approximately?
4:25 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I think this is the second year.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Okay, so you don't have a lot of experience.
You're coming now in late October or early November to make it for March of this year. So you're looking for supplements for this year. You may not be surprised that I have a fair amount of--
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Yes, but in my world if you ask for something in March you get it for March and spend it. If you are out of money you don't have an opportunity to come back and ask for more. But that's not the world I live in here.
I've had a fair amount of push-back--another word I've learned since I've come here--on our making a cut of one-half of one percent to programs that added up to $1 billion or so a year. Has this committee ever said “I've heard from lots of constituents. Instead of cutting programs, why don't we cut government spending by half of one percent? So I'm cutting you $25,000 today.” Do you know if that's ever happened? Is it actually possible? Can you give me your response to that option?
4:30 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I have no idea if it has ever happened. I assume that it has, but I don't know. If it happened, one would behave accordingly. You get the services you pay for.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
It hasn't happened to the Ethics Commissioner's position, as far as you know?
4:30 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I should point out that even with our current request for this year, which is about $5 million, you're still well under the estimate of what was going to be needed, the estimate done before the office began.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I understand that. I know you're new, so it's not really fair, but this may be a question I'll ask everybody at all my committees. I'm sorry you're the first victim.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Mr. Wallace, just for your information, the committee has the power to approve the estimates, lower them, or say nothing about them, in which case they're deemed to be approved.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
We can, and that has happened in the past. In the last Parliament, the transport committee reduced the budget. The usual practice would be for the government, particularly in a majority situation, to simply move in the House to overrule the committee.
Anyone else want to ask the commissioner about his estimates today?
Commissioner, thank you very much.
Mr. Benson.
4:30 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I want to raise one point related to Mr. Tilson's question. There was one case subsequent to Ms. Sgro in which we retained counsel to conduct an interview, but it was outside the country. So there was one case. If you drill down in our website, there is one contract we issued to a lawyer outside the country to conduct an interview.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I want to voice my objection to the process. I ask if this is all there is, and you refer me to a web page. I have a lot of difficulty with that.
I'm not addressing the witnesses, Mr. Chairman; I'm just expressing my frustration. I come here to look at estimates, and I see two lines. Then I'm told that if I want more details either I or my staff should go to a web page. I find that very strange. I'm not asking for any response from you or the witnesses. I just find it a very difficult and strange process. Somewhere along the line, we're going to have a meeting to vote on these estimates, and I don't think we have appropriately reviewed them. That's my personal view.
4:30 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I must say something.
4:30 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I did not say to go and look at the website. I said the website provides all kinds of information. We provided all of the detailed information in the main estimates. Next time we come before the committee, it would help if you would let us know what you have and what you don't. We can't tell what has been distributed, or not been distributed, or how. We would be glad to provide information on every single budget line, and I can understand why you would want it. It makes sense to me.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Mr. Shapiro, the next time you come, we'll be sure to canvass the members in advance to ensure that whatever information we want is in front of us when you appear. Thank you for that comment.