Evidence of meeting #48 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Well, I don't know when it was sent. I have to assume it was sent yesterday, at the very latest.
The clerk tells me it's not the practice to send out the report, but just to hand it out at the meeting.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Okay. All right. It occurred to me that I might have misplaced it at my office and that I might be at fault for that. But in this case, I'm being presented with something on the spot. This is the first occasion I've had to find out what went on at the steering committee.
Remember that the in camera rule says you can't talk about what went on in committee, so literally that was a secret from committee members until the moment we came into this room.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
But what went on, Mr. Reid, is synopsized in this report, and this is what we are discussing. So as Monsieur Vincent says, are you in favour of the report? If so, fine; if not, you can tell us why you're not.
If you have a motion to amend, you can do that, but could you get to it?
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Right. Well, I've explained now the context of the concern, that it wasn't presented to me till now, and so I've been trying to think what would be the appropriate way of moving here. The report does not deal with certain key elements that I'm going to suggest should be included. The elements I've described conceptually, but as a starting point, the original motion that Madame Lavallée put forward and which I amended, you may recall....
I know there have been complaints about other members going on at length, but I think I've tried to be very, very businesslike.
I proposed an amendment, which went through, so there was no presupposition of guilt.
Her original motion, which we are seized with, is on the question of any wrongdoing that might have occurred, specifically breaches of the Access to Information Act. At no point that I'm aware of has anyone pointed to the relevant sections of the access to information law. I think that has to be the starting point.
I'm fully prepared to accept that there may have been such breaches. That's indeed why I proposed the amendment I did, and then was...well, I wasn't actually here for the final vote, but I would have been supportive of the motion as amended.
We need to start by figuring out what it is that's been broken. I printed it out this morning. This is a long, complicated law. So I have a copy right here. I've been trying to go through it this morning, actually, trying to figure out what parts of this might potentially have been breached.
To summon people here, we would have summoned Ms. Sabourin, who I assume is the person who is likely to be the person—
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you.
I've tried going through The Globe and Mail articles, and particularly I looked up one that mentions Mr. Esau. He didn't actually write the article, he was mentioned.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
The more speakers interrupt him, the longer it will take to have him make his point.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
In any case, it's going to take just as long, Mr. Chair.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
We used to work together for freedom of information. Remember that, David? Remember the good old days when we were champions of the right to know? Those were the good old days.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Order, please. I realize that members are frustrated, but this is the way this committee operates. I might just mention that—
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
This is a very congested way not to have a meeting...[Inaudible—Editor]. You should say that, Mr. Chair.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
—the committee is the master of its own house; later on, if we want to discuss making rules on how our committee deals with motions and how many times you can speak and how long you can speak, the committee can do that, but not now. That may be something we wish to discuss at a future meeting.
Right now Mr. Reid has the floor, and he's explaining why he believes that the fourth report is deficient.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you.
Madame Sabourin has mentioned that she has been summoned here as a witness. She would have been sitting on a panel with Mr. Esau and, I gather, also with Mr. Attaran. I, for one, could not have asked intelligent questions to Professor Attaran because I didn't actually know what the connection was. I couldn't do proper research. So that is a problem as well.
I do have the article that refers to Mr. Esau, so I could have probably stumbled and pieced together a question there. I couldn't have asked very many intelligent questions of Madame Sabourin because I wouldn't have had time to prepare. That is inherently wrong. It is inherently wrong to have the witnesses here at this time, and certainly to have witnesses of whom we were not advised at that last meeting. Mr. Esau was mentioned, but others were not mentioned, and there's a problem when they're being summoned here and we can't ask them proper questions.
I would go so far as to say, Mr. Chair, that what was being proposed here by the steering committee—and again, I do think this was inadvertent, I don't think they intended this—was effectively a court of star chamber. I think we need to move away from that. I think we can move away from that while still being respectful of the initial motion that Madame Lavallée put forward and that I amended.
With that in mind, Mr. Chair, I want to propose an amendment to the motion. The amendment—I've had to do it on the fly, Mr. Chair, and I apologize for the fact, but that's the only option I had—is not in both official languages, but remember, I did not see this until now and therefore I can't be as respectful of—
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
—both official languages as I would like to be.
Having said that—
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC
Point of order, Mr. Chair. I don't want to constantly interrupt the proceedings, but are we talking about the fourth report?
