Information & Ethics Committee on May 29th, 2007

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I'm sorry to bring that up.

The other thing you're quoted as saying, and in the blacked-out document, is that section 15 was used and section 21 in the summary section, which is advice to the minister. People didn't like my doing it, but I did it anyway. I read through those sections at a previous meeting, and under International Affairs and Defence, eight subsections apply that may have caused your decision-making. Is that the area of the legislation you look at, the exemptions for responsibilities of government under International Affairs and Defence? Is that the section you used to black out that document?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

The proper provision to invoke is subsection 15(1). The paragraphs that are listed below that, paragraphs a, b, and c, are illustrative and they are not exhaustive. Whenever we have to invoke this provision, it's properly invoked when we refer to it as subsection 15(1).

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

There has been reference, and I know you're not a lawyer.... I have seen now a copy of the redacted version, but I understand there are copies--or some people claim they have copies--of the non-redacted version. As an ATIP analyst, if that has not been released, would you consider that as having that information on an illegal basis? Is there a legal issue around having that information if you haven't released it?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

I can only speak about the documents that I release under the act. I am not aware of other releases, and the conclusion could be that these documents...where they are, I don't know.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

So if you've made a decision about redacting a section, and then somebody in your department that you're responsible for releases a section that you've made a decision on, what are the personnel implications of that happening? Is there a code of conduct that those in your department have to abide by?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

[Inaudible—Editor]...and as public service officials we are bound to protect and to use the information that is available to us within the security policy. That's correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

Mr. Peterson.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

We haven't met personally, Madam Sabourin, but I must say you looked after me very well when I was minister, and I thank you for that.

Before responding to either Mr. Esau or Professor Attaran and giving them this redacted, edited 2006 report, did you or any of your staff have conversations with anyone in the minister's office?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

No.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

How did you communicate to the minister's office, or to the minister, the release of this redacted report?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

There's a process where, as Ms. Thomsen mentioned, at the beginning of every week we provide electronically a list of new ATIP requests that we receive, and that is sent electronically to staff in the minister's office.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

The request for this information was communicated to the minister's office before you responded to either applicant?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

It's a list of requests, yes.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

But no conversations were ever had, no communications?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

It was all done electronically.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

That's a communication.

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

Oh. Well, not conversations, but it was done electronically.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

So the minister's office was fully aware of this request for information?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

Not the documents, just the requests.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

The requests for information.

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

That's correct.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

When did the minister get a copy of the documents that were sent out?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

Again, it's an e-mail message. It's called a notification, and it was sent on April 17, with a copy of the released package.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

You have the ultimate authority as to what gets blacked out?

[Jocelyne Sabourin]

Correct.