Evidence of meeting #9 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
No.
Bloc
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
No.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
In what category would you classify a member of Parliament making an ATIP request?
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
As a member of the public. An MP doesn't belong in the corporations category. In principle, an MP should not be an organization, at least that is not what we are aiming for. And he would certainly not be put in the media category, nor is he associated with a university. So, I believe he would be seen as a member of the public.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Are public reports issued about the number of ATIP requests in each category? For example, how many requests were there in this or that category?
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
A compilation is prepared by the Treasury Board once a year. For example, we indicate the percentage of users.
The latest statistics that I have are: 47 per cent for corporations, 32.6 per cent for the public, 8.4 per cent for organizations, 10.6 per cent for the media, and 1.2 per cent for academics.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
And what is the point of categorizing them in that way?
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
The purpose is simply to have an idea, for statistical purposes, of who is requesting information under the Access to Information Act.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
So, you want to have an idea, for statistical purposes, of who is making the requests.
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
Yes, exactly. This allows us to see the categories of members of the public or institutions making ATIP requests. It's not a very sophisticated system, but it does give us an idea. It is easy to see that almost half of the requests are made by corporations. This tool was used by Ms. Andrée Delagrave of the Access to Information Review Task Force in 2000. These are the kinds of statistics that they reviewed. Once again, it's very generic.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
You probably know that, according to the way Parliament works, when an MP requests information from the Library of Parliament, library researchers call the departments and make such and such a request. Are those requests subject to the Access to Information Act and are they collated?
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
If a researcher makes a request on behalf of an MP, I presume it would be considered as coming from the public; it is not specifically identified with an MP or a political party.
Are you asking me whether the Library of Parliament is subject to the Access to Information Act?
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
No, it is not.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Mr. Lemieux, I would like to find out more about the whole process surrounding an access to information request. How does a request end up in one of your inventory categories, and how can someone in a Minister's office then identify the origin of the request and exact name of the requester?
Executive Director, Information, Privacy and Security Policy, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
The access to information request is sent to the Access to Information Office. A cheque for $5 is required to pay the ATIP processing fee. The Office then identifies the specific area or areas where the information may be held. It does a search, finds the documents and identifies portions to be severed in accordance with the Access to Information Act under the exceptions regime in sections 13 to 23 of the Act. There are also exclusions for Cabinet confidences. That process goes forward, and then a review is undertaken.
The Office may then consult other people or third parties who are neither institutions nor the applicant. It could be a company, an organization or other departments. After all that work is completed, the analysis is done and there is a final product. Depending on the institution -- more than 180 are subject to the Act, and some are larger than others -- the Access to Information Coordinator is then able to respond to the request.
As regards the categories mentioned earlier, there is a way of identifying these requests that may not always be used. Some institutions do it, but not all. The program is called ATIPflow. The purpose of that program used by some departments is to manage ATIP requests appropriately, in order to meet deadlines. For example, there is a 30-day deadline for a typical request.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.
As you know, the purpose of our study is to find out the extent of the allegations made that there are, in fact, people finding out who filed the application or the request. So that we all start with the base level of information, it is helpful for you to walk us through the elementary steps of who you are and what you're doing. That has been very useful. But we really want to know your experience, or even what you're hearing about the administration of ATI as we know it.
The deputy information commissioner left us with the idea that he fears there is a widespread violation of the act or the spirit of the act, in that it's not unusual for ministers or ministers' offices to find out who is asking the question, and then applications are treated differently, accordingly.
Do you worry about that? Do you hear about these rumours? Do you hear about the amber lighting that we now have come to realize is the code word for red alert, a red flag on certain files, mostly based on who's asking the question? Now that you've given us this base introduction of what you're up to, what do you hear about these concerns out there?
Deputy Chief Information Officer, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
In our dealings with the Information Commissioner and his office as well, we do hear the sorts of things that you hear as well. For example, when we do hear the allegations that were put forth a couple of weeks ago or more, we do attempt to determine some facts on them, although clearly the Privacy Commissioner is pursuing those in detail.
With anything we are hearing, though, either through our informal dealings with the ATIP community or what we're picking up elsewhere, we will be ensuring that our training material and our communications out with the ATIP coordinators again reinforce how we see this as incredibly important. The ATIP process and that the privacy of individuals who are making those requests must being upheld.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I don't want to interrupt you, sir, but I have such little time to ask questions.
Isn't the ATIP coordinator the weak link here? How does an ATIP coordinator tell a minister's assistant to get stuffed, that they don't have a right to know who made the request? Can you back that person up, or is it the head of the institution or agency that's supposed to back them up? Who says no to the minister?
Deputy Chief Information Officer, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
There's really a two-pronged thing there. One is making sure the ATIP coordinators know what their rights are, know who they're supposed to be able to tell and for what reasons, and who they should not be telling if requests come in asking them who actually put this thing in. So part of it's knowledge, but you're right that there can be a perception of a fair amount of power being brought to bear.
One of the things that Donald's group does in the call centre that they're operating, in that community that they're in there, comes from a policy centre perspective. They make sure the people have the backing of the policy centre.
Now if there is undue--
