Evidence of meeting #27 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inquiry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
I just want all the committee to know that Madame Dawson has expressed to me her regrets for that letter that had been sent to Mr. Tilson. I have accepted those.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Now this is difficult to deal with, so I'll deal with it generally. I cannot comment on any inquiry that I am undertaking in any way, shape, or form, or make any comments about that.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
There are some time requirements that are necessary to follow in the code. One receives a request. One very shortly, within a day or two, gives the person complained against a copy of the request. That person is then allowed 30 working days to respond. Then there's a seven-day period for a preliminary....
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It is ten working days to receive the response. So there's a built-in time lag there of about a month and a half, which comes to about two months when you consider weekends and holidays and things. We were in a holiday period.
That's the first observation. There's no way an inquiry could be turned around in less than about two months, allowing time for the person complained against to input and time for me to consider whether it was a reasonable thing to inquire into.
Laying that aside, there are different levels of difficulty in the matters raised in inquiries. It's very important that a person in my position not put out a decision on a question raised without giving it good consideration, because whatever decision comes out of an inquiry will be a guidepost for future behaviour.
I think there is absolutely nothing unusual about a three- or four-month lag on a decision on an inquiry.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, Ms. Dawson, Mr. Coakeley and Ms. Benoit.
You have said a great deal about your Estimates, and that is natural since that is why you are appearing here. You have also told us about the administrative problems you are facing. At present, ethics is indeed a challenge, et and will remain one for dozens of years to come. I would like to know what challenges you are currently facing as Ethics Commissioner. I don't mean administrative challenges, but challenges relating to ethics.
The purpose of the Codes of Ethics is to restore, establish or maintain the confidence of Canadians in their elected officials. Almost every code of ethics on earth begins in similar terms.
In Canada, as in Quebec, statistics show that people's confidence in elected officials is lower than it has never been. Only used car salesmen score in the same range. That makes me wonder about Mr. Van Kesteren—he used to sell cars and now he is a member of Parliament. He is the only one among us for whom things may somewhat improved with regard to the confidence people have in him. But however many jokes we may make in passing, it remains that the issue of confidence is a serious a significant challenge.
Can you tell us how, as an Ethics Commissioner, we could find ways to restore the confidence of Canadians in their elected officials?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That is an incredibly broad question. I can answer a very small part of it. My role is to interpret and to administer the Act and the Code. Many factors contribute to the public perception of Parliamentarians, but I can control only a very small number of those factors.
All I can do is clearly state what the rules are, and help members when they ask for advice on actions they should take or should not take. With regard to my office, I would say that we are always ready to discuss issues with members and explain whether they can take certain actions, and whether some actions are in fact a good idea.
I cannot solve that problem myself. Last week, I took part in a conference on that very theme. No one had an answer to it.
As I have already said, I believe that, for the most part, members are altruistic. In my view, it is unfair that they should have that reputation. It is a real shame. That is all I can say.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Does your authority allow you solely to respond to complaints, or can you take the initiatives and make statements on some given situations?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Generally, I have the authority to make an opinion I have given someone public. I can include anything on the Website with a view to giving opinions.
As I said, the problem regarding members is that I need approval from the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs before posting an opinion on the Website.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Forgive me, but I will make my question more specific because my time is limited.
I would like to know if you can take the initiative, and launch an investigation or process of reflection on a given issue.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, I can.
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Of course I do have a follow up question on that.
In the case of Mr. Mulroney, could you have or should you have made a public statement indicating whether Mr. Mulroney had breached the Code of Ethics applicable at the time?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No, because that does not come under my authority.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
But you have said that former public office holders do come under your authority.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
The Commissioner's authority to conduct an investigation on former public office holders is described in the transition provisions of the Federal Accountability Act.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
The title in French is Loi fédérale sur la responsabilité.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Thank you.
The commissioner has the power to investigate cases involving people subject to the Conflict of Interest and Post-Employment Code for public office holders.
This document is almost certainly the one that preceded the 2004 version. It is not clear, and I should also add that we did not focus on the question of whether the previous code that was in effect had the same status as this one.
The broader mandate also extends to those individuals who came under this code.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Mr. Hiebert will have to get six and a half minutes as well, I suppose.
Mr. Hiebert, please.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was counting on every one of those six minutes and 30 seconds of time, because I have to leave the balance of my time, when I'm finished my questions, for my colleague, Mr. Van Kesteren.
Madam, could you tell us what is the average length of time for an inquiry?
