Evidence of meeting #27 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inquiry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
Yes, but what is 100% in the future? Do you see this as an organization that will keep growing, or do you see the number you have now being what the office will need over the next 10 years?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I think it's probably a pretty good guess of what we'll need. In fact, it's possible that in a year or two we'll find that we don't need the full 50. On the other hand, we may find that there's a sudden escalation of inquiries. Each inquiry takes quite a bit of time and effort, and brain power, so the number of inquiries we have to deal with is probably the single most significant factor that might affect our staffing and our budget.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
The report is solely your responsibility on an inquiry, with consultation or with advice.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Right.
Liberal
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, except I don't think the Senate has had an inquiry in years, if ever, frankly.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
But that was a big bone of contention when your office was set up, that the Senate should have their own commissioner—right?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Right.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
Is it conceivable or is it in practice, or what would we do as far as the research side of it is concerned? Regarding the decision or the recommendation of the report drafted by the commissioner, perhaps they have a good argument that theirs should be different from the House of Commons, or whatever, whether you agree with it or not. But as far as the back-room stuff is concerned, the research being done and all that, for the independent commissioner to come to that recommendation, can the same staff do both, or would you be doing both?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Is this the annual report and the inquiry reports? I'm not sure which reports—
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
I'm talking about the individual inquiries that may be carried out during the year. If the Senate wants their independent commissioner, would that commissioner have to duplicate your staff, or would your staff be supplying that service to the commissioner?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
At the moment, we're totally separate.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes. We have nothing to do with the Senate.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Commissioner.
I'd like to ask a question with respect to your indicating that you're going to be claiming a little over $1 million for inquiries from the 2008-09 estimates. I'd like to ask you a specific question, and I'm going to be talking a lot about my colleague, Mr. Thibault.
As you know, this committee dealt with what is known as the Mulroney-Schreiber affair. At that time, at the beginning of the hearing—
Liberal
Lloyd St. Amand Liberal Brant, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I think, with respect, before Mr. Tilson goes much further, he's laying out a premise for some question ultimately to be asked of Ms. Dawson. From the tenor and content of the preamble, I don't think it's anything the commissioner would be able to answer in any event.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
May I seek some indication from the commissioner, if there is a question referred to you with regard to a member and there's a file and you have knowledge, and so on, and this is a matter that's ongoing, regardless of who the member is, would you be able to discuss it with us here?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
The only thing I can do with respect to an inquiry is if somebody asks me whether a preliminary inquiry has been started, or whether an inquiry has been taken, or whether a request for an inquiry has been given. I am allowed to answer those three questions and that's it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Do you want to debate this point of order, or do you want me to rule on it?
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
I want to suggest that I think Mr. St. Amand has jumped the gun. I think we should give my colleague an opportunity to complete his thought, so that we can actually.... There's no ruling necessary at this point, so let's see what he has to say.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I understand that, but he has made a point of order, and we....
Let me just say that I think we have the benefit of some input from the commissioner, which shall be taken into account. I think members should be careful to respect the situation.
You probably can get the answer you need by using a hypothetical maybe, rather than a particular case.