Evidence of meeting #29 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was complaints.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
No, we would go outside to find a third party who would audit...I think all of us are in the discussions.
Director General and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services Branch, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
In terms of an internal audit capacity, but in terms of our audited financial statements, it is the Auditor General who does our audits.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes. I was talking about internal audits.
Liberal
Shawn Murphy Liberal Charlottetown, PE
One issue that comes up when I review the reports on plans and priorities and the departmental performance reports, which seems to be becoming quite prevalent within departments and agencies, is the whole issue of human resources.
Is your office experiencing the same problem? Do you have a lot of people in acting positions? Do you have high turnover? Do you have difficulty recruiting qualified staff? Do you consider this a major issue?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Thank you for that question.
In the material we prepared for you, we have given you some tables at tab 5, because this issue has been a concern of the committee in the past.
The quick answer to your question is, yes, we experience all of those problems, but we experience them no more nor less than the rest of the public service. There is huge turnover in personnel, for all kinds of reasons, which are well known. That has singularly hampered our recruiting and our retention efforts.
Liberal
Shawn Murphy Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Do you have in place a fairly comprehensive human resources plan to deal with these issues, which seem to be experienced by every department and agency here in Ottawa?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes, we do. I mentioned it; we are reinforcing our retention plan.
For example, we are developing a questionnaire for exit interviews. Because we're in competition with many other agencies and departments in Ottawa, we're trying to make ourselves an employer of choice. We're trying in particular to look at how to attract and keep the bright, highly technological, and skilful younger people whom we need.
Liberal
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Right now, we have 122.
Liberal
Shawn Murphy Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Approximately how many of those would be acting positions and how many would be vacant positions?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
There are very few in acting positions right now. There are two....
Most of those, or 106, are full-time indeterminate positions. There are nine acting, one student, and two part-time positions, and the rest are either loaned out or loaned to us.
Liberal
Shawn Murphy Liberal Charlottetown, PE
I have nothing further.
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you very much.
I would like to begin by welcoming you to our Committee. We have met with you several times before, and it's always a pleasure to see you again.
In the conclusion of your presentation, you say:
This next year promises to be a dynamic one for our organization. From our internal recalibration of our business processes to our new outreach initiatives [...]
I would like you to explain what you mean by “recalibration of our business processes”. I am also wondering what is meant by “new outreach initiatives”. Although I am quite well educated, I do not understand the meaning of the expression used in French.
You go on to say that the key word for you is change, but I don't know what kind of change you're referring to.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
As regards a number of our business processes, there remain some significant challenges: rethinking our way of carrying out investigations, making more room for mediation and trying to accelerate our processes. And, I would like to highlight that point in relation to the investigations we are currently carrying out. At the present time, we are focussing more and more on the information provided to complainants initially, so that they have the tools they need to resolve their issues. And that clearly relates to investigations, which are a central aspect of our activity.
I mentioned that we have been conducting more investigations that we ourselves initiate. That is an important tool. When you have reasonable grounds to believe that there are problems, you need to be proactive and find out for yourself. In our increasingly technological world, ordinary citizens, and even people in our own offices, may not be aware of existing problems, because they occur in a virtual world. Investigations in the virtual world are therefore one of the important areas where we must get involved. Here are some examples.
We carry out joint audits—for example, with the Auditor General—and we work with the provinces who are interested in cooperating with us.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
You say that you want to review the way you conduct investigations, and you mentioned that you would come back to this a little later. However, I would like you to explain how the process works now, and how you would like it to work.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
In order to be fair, the way we currently do investigations is such that we work on the basis of the order in which we receive complaints—one after the other. At least, that is the way it was previously. We have changed our way of doing things. Increasingly, we want to make an intensive effort right from the start, not only to keep citizens and organizations informed, so that they can correct the problems themselves, but also to triage complaints strategically, so as to focus on those that have a significant systemic, social or institutional impact.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Without giving me a real-life example, could you nonetheless give me a more concrete example, so that I can understand what you mean by the term “triage”? How does triage work?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We are currently developing a triage factor analysis grid. For example, we're interested in finding out whether a specific problem is raised often by the same individual. Some people are almost like subscribers. Under one of our acts, it is difficult for us to close a complaint file or refuse to deal with complaints made by those who contact us regularly. I think that, for the public, there is a need to put an end to…
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
So, if I understand you correctly, the rule that 20 per cent of the people generate 80 per cent of the work seems to apply to you as well.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes, exactly. You put your finger on it.
A citizen or a group can raise an issue which has repercussions, either all across the public service, or in the private sector. It may change the institution's practices as a whole or create a precedent, for example.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
That may be confidential information, but can you just illustrate your point with an example?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Our lawyers recently argued a case in front of the Supreme Court of Canada. It's a case that we are investing a great deal of time and energy in, because it is very important for all Canadians. The question is whether or not we have investigative powers in relation to documents covered by solicitor-client privilege.
Because it wasn't explained exactly in those terms in PIPEDA, there is a debate as to whether or not we can see those documents. The idea is not to use them as evidence, but simply to determine whether client-solicitor privilege applies. This is a very important matter in all the investigations we carry out under that legislation. We have said that when an organization refuses to cooperate with us for the purposes of an investigation, that we need to go further with this, because it will clearly affect everyone that we investigate.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
If I understood you correctly, you said that, previously, you would carry out your investigations based on the chronological order in which you received the complaints.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Essentially, yes.
