Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2007

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I wonder what this does to the motion I moved, which has been passed as amended by Mike, that says that the committee call Karlheinz Schreiber to appear before the committee on Tuesday, November 27 and/or Thursday, November 29.

We've already done all this. My only reason for raising it is to make sure you had all the authority you needed to fulfill the direction of this motion. But now we have subsequent motions coming up that say virtually the same thing.

Does one override the last one? We're just going around in circles.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

You raise a very good point.

The initial motion we passed, as amended by Mr. Hubbard, was that Karlheinz Schreiber be called to be a witness before this committee “without delay”. It did not give dates, because it's somewhat indeterminate. This is the original motion that we dealt with first, and the committee is being asked to authorize the chair to take all necessary steps to call him.

The motion that was also passed—your motion, with the specific dates.... This is November 22. The first possible date would be Tuesday, November 27, for Mr. Schreiber.

If Mr. Schreiber needs two or three days to do that, and we need some days, if it turns out that we have to go through the House.... I'm still going to use whatever tools are available, but in terms of logistics or real time, I don't know whether or not it'll be November 27. It could be that November 28 would be the first date. Under the first motion we passed, it's basically at the “earliest” date. So it might be one of the dates in between yours—for instance, November 28.

I think the member probably doesn't have a problem. But we have to respect that the committee has indicated that we are going to deal with Mr. Schreiber on or before November 29.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay. As a point of additional clarification, when you talk about my motion, the motion that passed, which Mr. Hubbard put the amendment to, is in fact the motion I submitted. It's my motion, and this motion with the specific dates is my motion. You seem to have shifted the focus to where you're now talking about the first motion we passed as Mr. Hubbard's motion. If you look at the record, that's not the case.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you, Mr. Martin. You are absolutely right. The record will show that the motion as amended was Mr. Martin's. It's very clear on the record that you were the mover of the motion, Mr. Hubbard was the amender of the motion, and Mr. Wallace, I believe, was the subamender of the motion. So please all take credit for it.

Now, Madame Lavallée wants to move a motion with regard to—

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It is OK...

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Are we resolved?

[A voice]

No, we have to resolve on the summons motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I apologize. I thought everybody was nodding.

Mr. Hubbard has basically made the motion that the chair be authorized to execute the will of the committee with regard to calling Mr. Schreiber without delay, taking into account Mr. Martin's second motion with regard to those specific dates—by, on, or before November 29 is what it has there with regard to Mr. Schreiber—and that the chair do this without delay but certainly take into account the need for Mr. Schreiber to be able to prepare to come before us to have a fulsome discussion with this committee.

The members understand the motion and the intent of the motion. I'm going to put the question now.

All those in favour?

It's unanimous.

[The Clerk]

They voted against it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Did you? Oh, I'm sorry.

[An hon. member]

It was five and five.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I'm sorry.

Do I understand, Mr. Martin, that you did not put your hand up?

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I need further clarification, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I've put the question. The clerk advises that the vote resulted in a tie. In the case of a tie, the chairman has a vote to break the tie. The chair will vote in favour of the motion.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We have authorization for the chair to execute the subpoena or calling for persons and whatever tools are necessary to make that happen on or before November 29.

Madame Lavallée has given notice that she wants to make a motion on the preliminary witness list. Are we okay there?

Mr. Asselin.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, in the matter of Mr. Mulroney and Mr. Schreiber, I think that the committee should submit the list of witnesses that it wants to hear from to the clerk's office before 5:00 p.m. on Monday, 26 November. The list will be preliminary, of course, and committee members should be able to add the names of other witnesses, through the clerk. Let us submit a draft list of witnesses that we want to hear from to the clerk's office before 5:00 p.m. on Monday, 26 November. I so move. I am asking that each party be asked to prepare its list by Monday, 26 November.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Asselin has moved a motion, and it's in order, that the members submit their suggestions for a preliminary list of witnesses in this matter of Mr. Schreiber and Mr. Mulroney by Monday at 5 p.m. in the clerk's office. That is the motion.

Is there any further debate?

Mr. Thibault.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I don't have huge objections.

This is a preliminary list. So we can add names. But Monday is coming up very soon. it is already Thursday afternoon, the weekend is fast approaching, and we have to have the list in on Monday. I do not know if we will have the time to work on it properly. In another motion, we have already decided that we will hear from Mr. Schreiber and Mr. Mulroney sometime before the Christmas break. I think that we could give ourselves a little more time, until Thursday for example, to come up with a preliminary list. We would then be able to work on it a little better.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I am ready to accept that, Mr. Chair.

Maybe the Liberal party finds it more difficult to prepare a list. The Bloc Québécois is so efficient that we could have submitted ours this afternoon. I am willing to give the Liberals a break, and to agree that we can put it back to Thursday, 29 November.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Again, we don't have friendly amendments. This is marked as an amendment to a motion. Mr. Thibault has moved an amendment that the date be changed to Thursday, November 29, at 5 p.m.

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Hiebert.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I move that Professor Johnston appear before this committee as the first witness on the study involving Mr. Schreiber.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, order. Please, the chair just wants to consult here for a second.

The committee has just passed a motion by Mr. Asselin, as amended by Mr. Thibault, that a preliminary list of witnesses in this matter be submitted by Thursday, November 29. That was adopted by the committee.

Mr. Hiebert now has made a motion that we hear Dr. Johnston as the first witness, which is basically pre-empting the committee's deliberation on the order in which.... So as long as members understand, it is in order. The motion is in order, but it is contradictory to a question that the committee has already adopted. So Mr. Hiebert has moved that Dr. Johnston be the first witness to appear.

Did you specify a date, Mr. Hiebert, or just the first?

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Exactly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

State your motion, and then you have the floor.