Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2007

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

My only point, Mr. Chair, was to make sure that this committee authorized you to use whatever tools or resources may be necessary to bring that about, to crack Mr. Schreiber out of jail and get him down here before the committee.

It may be that the chair needs some extraordinary authorization, and if he does, I think the committee should give it to him today. Perhaps the clerk can clarify whether the chair has all the authority he needs or whether this committee needs to vest him with further authority to direct him to make Mr. Schreiber appear here on Tuesday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you, Mr. Martin.

Pursuant to the Standing Orders and the practices of the House, subcommittees do in fact have the tools and resources themselves, or through the House or the Speaker, to call for persons or papers.

The clerk raises a good point. As you know, there has been some discussion about what instrument might be used. Speakers' warrants, I understand....

One of our colleagues, the honourable Derek Lee, has written a book on the power of parliamentary houses to send for persons, papers, or records. Indeed, it's been very helpful to understand.... I believe that it probably would be helpful if the committee would authorize the chair to issue a summons or a subpoena or another instrument to effect the wish of the committee in the motion passed.

Can I have a motion for that?

Go ahead, Mr. Hubbard.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

I know it's a complicated procedure, but the most important part of his appearing before this committee would be his preparing to come here. It's very important that he not simply be moved from point X to point Z, point Z being here, but that he be given time to put together his papers so he is able to present. We at the committee would indicate to him some of the questions we might want to ask.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Hubbard.

I'm aware that it has been represented by Mr. Schreiber through the media that in order to appear he would require access to his papers and some time to read them. I think we will certainly accommodate that reasonable accommodation. We will give notice to all parties required that the call for the appearance of Mr. Schreiber has in fact been made and requested by this committee.

Madame Lavallée, go ahead.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to come back to a matter that I raised earlier, the witness list. We voted on a list as a matter of urgency, if I may say so, and the urgency was clear. Could we agree on the time by which we have to provide you with a list of witnesses to call?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Do I have a recommendation from the committee? I might suggest that it perhaps be to the clerk's office, next Monday at 5 p.m. That would be a suggestion. Maybe we would like to discuss it at the next committee meeting, so I'd like to have it in their hands in advance.

We'll go to Mr. Martin, please.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Chairman, would it be worthwhile if the chair called a special subcommittee meeting so that one representative from each of the parties could talk about the order we're going to follow when Mr. Schreiber is here and some kind of etiquette or protocol associated with this? Given the interest in this public meeting, there might be some special planning necessary to accommodate the public interest.

I'm not recommending that we change the order of speaking. I think it should stay as per the routine motions we passed at our planning committee. Given the level of interest, and so on, I think we should have a planning committee meeting so that the various parties can share their concerns or views.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to understand if Mr. Hubbard has specifically requested that a gentleman who is being held in the Metropolitan Toronto West Detention Centre, and who is wanted by a foreign government on charges of bribery, tax evasion, fraud—

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

And forgery.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

—and forgery, thank you, Mr. Martin—be granted bail and basically be set free. Would you like to put him up at the Westin as well, Mr. Hubbard, so that he's comfortable while he's here?

I think there is a procedure set for somebody who is incarcerated, and I think the justice system should determine exactly how he is brought to witness before this committee. I think Canadians should be rightly outraged with the suggestion you've made.

[An hon. member]

May I respond?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

I'm going to ask committee members to be judicious and ensure that we don't speak in a manner that is potentially unparliamentary and negative about another honourable member. We are in debate; this is not question and comment.

Mr. Del Mastro, you've made your points. Thank you very kindly.

The next speaker is Mr. Thibault, and then I have Mr. Hubbard.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, I would move that the chair of the committee take all appropriate action in seeking a warrant—a Speaker's warrant, a subpoena, or whatever instrument is best in this instance—to ensure the presence of Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber before the committee, as per previous motions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I thought that's what Mr. Hubbard had moved and that we were debating it; we are in the middle of debate, and I recognized you as a speaker on debate of that motion.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Would you read the motion we have? I ask to hear the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

All right.

Could I ask the clerk to read the motion that is presently before the committee?

[The Clerk]

Mr. Hubbard has moved essentially that the committee issue a summons to Mr. Schreiber. Whatever the committee decides, it has to be done as a committee.

That's where we are at.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Okay. There is not very much detail there, but it is in order.

[The Clerk]

It reads:

That the committee issue a summons that Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber appear before this committee.

Sometimes we may include the date and the time, but it is difficult now, in the sense that Mr. Schreiber is in detention in Toronto and we're not sure when we could have him appear before the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Hubbard, please.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

I think, Mr. Chair, the wording for that was prefaced and that your request as chair was to have somebody make that motion. When I spoke on it, I indicated that subject to the regulations of the House, you as chair would be able to proceed with it.

Second, regarding Mr. Del Mastro's assertions in terms of escorts, and so forth, I had no intent that we'd be restricting what the laws of this country are. But I know that even the worst prisoner in our country can be escorted from place to place. I merely indicated that he should have access to his records and should not be moved from point X to Z but should be given time to prepare his presentation to this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you, Mr. Hubbard. That was my understanding of your motion, that although it is brief, it should be read and understood in the context of your remarks not to be restrictive but to authorize the chair to take those steps to do it properly. That was my understanding.

Okay. We now have Mr. Asselin, s'il vous plaît.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, when we change the speaking order like this, we end up jumping all over the place. We really do not have time to go into a question when the Conservative asks one, then the Liberals. Everything gets out of order.

Mrs. Lavallée asked a question, but there has been no confirmation of the answer. If a motion is needed for that to happen, I will make one. I move the following: That the parties represented on the committee must submit a list of witnesses by Monday, 26 November.

That is the first draft, but I also move that the list of witness that we would like to hear from remain open.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Asselin, we have a motion already on the floor with regard to calling Mr. Schreiber and taking all necessary steps, and to authorize the chair to do it taking into account the need to do papers, etc. That is the motion before us.

Are there any more speakers on that motion? Then I'm going to hear Mr. Asselin's motion on getting a preliminary list of witnesses.

Mr. Martin.