Evidence of meeting #40 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I know. Thanks for your help.
Could I have the roll call please?
(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 6; nays 5)
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
I still have the floor.
Mr. Chair, I'm going to speak to this issue.
I've heard Mr. Hubbard move his motion....
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
No, I'm not at a loss for words. I'm trying to contemplate how to best communicate this to you so you'll understand, Mr. Proulx.
This all happened at the last meeting with some force and some abruptness. I sincerely regret that there wasn't an opportunity for further discussion about this particular motion, because it's clearly my understanding--and this is why I moved the motion I did a moment ago--that the Speaker of the House of Commons has already ruled on this kind of motion.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Mr. Hiebert, we've already ruled on that matter. You'll have to move on to something else, please.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
I'm speaking to the motion. I can speak to the nature of the motion, Mr. Chair.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Well, I would ask you to speak to it. It is a motion on determining ethical implications of the in-and-out matter.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
I think I have the floor, Mr. Chair.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I understand that, but please keep relevant to the motion before us now, which is the Hubbard motion.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Are you finished? I intend to, Mr. Chair. If you'll give me the opportunity and if you show some restraint and not censor every thought you think I'm going to utter, perhaps you'll recognize after a moment or two of reflection that I actually have something to contribute to this debate.
Please have some patience, Mr. Chair.
I was saying the motion Mr. Hubbard has put forward deals with a matter I believe should rightfully be dealt with by another committee. Why do I believe this? I believe this because the Speaker of the House of Commons has made it very clear, because of issues related before this committee in the recent past.
In Marleau and Montpetit, on page—
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order.
Mr. Hiebert, I just want to raise with you that the matter is in order in this committee, and to debate that it should go to another committee is not relevant to the motion before us.
Please be careful on this, or I'll have no alternative but to recognize another speaker.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Mr. Chair, let me explain. You've cut me off. This is my time to explain to the members of this committee why I believe....
Are you listening, Mr. Chair? You need to understand this, because you don't seem to get it.
This is my time to explain to the members of this committee why I believe they should vote against Mr. Hubbard's motion. I am allowed to speak to these matters, because of the rights I have as a member of Parliament in this committee. If I want to cite references from Marleau and Montpetit or from the Speaker of the House of Commons as to why I believe this motion should not be voted for, I am free to do so.
You may not agree with me, sir. You may not like the tenor or the tone or the nature of my arguments, but you cannot shut me down when I have the opportunity to convince my colleagues. This is what the House of Commons is all about.
I'm chair of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order, please.
Mr. Hiebert, I agree with you fully. My only point to you was that it appeared to me that you wanted to debate whether or not this motion was properly before this committee.
Mr. Hiebert, I've ruled on it. It was challenged. It was sustained by the committee. It is properly before the committee, and any debate on whether this is properly before this committee is not relevant to the motion.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
That is not true, Mr. Chair. I am free to use my time in debate to try to convince my colleagues why they shouldn't vote for this motion. If I can pose a convincing argument that this motion should not even be considered here, that could be a reason that could convince them, that could tip them over the point of consideration as to why they should oppose it.
Before you rule me out of relevance, give me the opportunity to make my arguments, because you don't know the impact my words might have on my colleagues.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order.
I'm sorry, Mr. Hiebert, I've asked you three times, three separate instances on relevance. We have to stick to the motion.
I'm going to move on to the next speaker.
Mr. Wallace.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Point of order.
I'm getting more and more concerned, Mr. Chairman, as to how you continually interrupt speakers. Mr. Hiebert was giving an explanation as part of a response to the motion made by Mr. Hubbard.
Now you're interrupting me.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
You have absolutely no right to do that, sir, and if you'll allow me—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
So you're just not going to allow him to speak, is that what your plan is? You're just going to proceed this afternoon; you're not going to allow Mr. Poilievre to speak. Mr. Hiebert was next, and now me. All three of us you've turned down. The clincher will be if you start turning down Mr. Wallace and Mr. Van Kesteren, then we'll know—
