Evidence of meeting #49 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
No, Mr. Mayrand has indicated that he doesn't have the information he needs to answer further to your question. I believe that is where we've left it.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Madam Redman, is this an urgent point of order that we should deal with right now?
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Okay, stop the clock for Mr. Goodyear.
I prefer not to interrupt questioning and answering, but....
Madam Redman.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
I believe it's procedural.
I would ask Mr. Goodyear to say who is the author of the affidavit and what he's referring to, for the edification not only of Mr. Mayrand but of the rest of the committee.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Okay. I think it's a good point. It's not a point of order, but it is a good point.
Maybe Mr. Goodyear can assist Mr. Mayrand first of all, so that if he's going to give an answer to a matter, he is absolutely sure what document, what facts. It's only fair. Otherwise, I think he'll have to indicate that he'll undertake to provide an answer to you, sir, if you would provide him with copies of the relevant document.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Can you tell us the names of the Liberals whose files are still open, on your website?
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
I have one minute left, Monsieur Mayrand. Please, let me just ask you a straightforward question.
I can show you evidence that the NDP did exactly the same thing by transferring expenses—Libby Davies, for example, a witness who we asked be here; we were denied that. If I show you a series of e-mails, will you agree to investigate the NDP, the Bloc, and the Liberals as you are doing now with just one party?
1:10 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Again, there's a process for that. Complaints can be filed with the office at any time, by anyone. We will review the complaints, review the facts that are alleged, and determine what is the proper course of action to be taken.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
1:10 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I think it's useful at this late hour—even though it's a quarter after one, we're all hungry, and some people are getting grumpy—that we try to cut through the smoke screen that's been put up by Darwin's waiting room over here and we try to establish the real salient points here. The Conservatives spent $1.3 million more than they were allowed to under the Canada Elections Act's spending limits. Then they hid those expenses by trying to transfer the expenses to the books of local riding associations. That act in itself is a fraudulent effort to hide a contravention of the Canada Elections Act.
Do you agree?
1:15 p.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Again, as I've testified before this committee before, the only decision made this far is to refuse reimbursement of those claims as I did not find them having been incurred by the candidate. As to whom those expenses should be attributed to, no decision has been made.
1:15 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I understand.
To compound the offence, then they had the gall to claim a rebate on 60% of those fraudulent expenses, getting a bonus on the proceeds of the crime, so to speak. I think that's where most Canadians would really find fault.
Our election system is funded in a number of very generous ways. In the first place, if I make a donation to a political campaign, I get 75% of the first $400 given back to me; second, we subsidize elections to the tune of $1.75 per vote received in the election campaign given to the party; and third, there's a rebate on the legitimate local expenses of campaigns of 60% of their actual cash outlay—not of in-kind expenses, but of legitimate cash outlays, at fair market commercial value, spent locally. We're very generous.
The Conservatives have developed what they call, what their candidates call, a “creative fundraising scheme” to prop up the bank accounts of ridings—in one witnesses' testimony—in a low-income area because they are pleading poverty and therefore that justifies bilking the taxpayer out of 60% of this phantom money that was dipped into a bank account for about 30 seconds and yarded right back out again.
That scenario would not be allowed. Well, obviously I don't have to ask you, sir, because you disallowed those claims, and I thank you for catching it.
Other than that, all candidates in all 308 ridings had their books scrutinized, and fault was only found with 67 Conservative Party ridings. So the rest is self-evident.
At this point in time, Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we suspend the proceedings after the next Liberal speaker for a two-hour break so that we can get some business done before the end of business day, because I anticipate we're going to have a long evening getting through the other orders of business today.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Mr. Martin, we're coming to the end of the second round. In fact, the end of the second round is not actually Madam Redman, but the person after her, who is Mr. Tilson. And I think it's only fair that—
1:15 p.m.
NDP
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I just raise it for you that our practice has been to cut it off at an end of a round. You've made a motion.