Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 27th, 2009

[Karen Shepherd]

Thank you. On the question of expanded powers,

previously the act talked about the fact that I could look into doing investigations under the code of conduct. It wasn't clear under the act that I actually had the ability to look into infractions of the act.

You may recall that, as I mentioned in one of my previous appearances, there was a court case that actually questioned the previous registrar's ability to look into infractions of the act. It forced us to hold off from seeing some of the files until we actually won that particular argument. It's now explicit in the act that I have the ability to look into both the act and the code of conduct. That's something that I think is good.

In terms of the penalties and so on, previously if there had been a penalty on a summary conviction, it was $25,000 and a six-month jail term. It's now $50,000. The jail term stays the same. In terms of a summary conviction, the act talks about....

It's now doubled, I think. It's $200,000--right?--and two years....

[Bruce Bergen, Senior Counsel, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying]

For an indictable offence.

[Karen Shepherd]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

It's good to have a team with you.

[Karen Shepherd]

It is good to have a team. It's great.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

By the way, did you introduce your team?

[Karen Shepherd]

I did. Bruce Bergen is my legal counsel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Okay. That's why he answered the question.

[Karen Shepherd]

That's right. He did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

Please go ahead.

[Karen Shepherd]

In terms of the member's question,

under the act, it is a criminal offence. The act requires that if I consider there to be reasonable grounds, I must send the RCMP...

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Excuse me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Ms. Freeman?

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Chair, I asked Ms. Shepherd my questions in French and I would like her to answer me in French.

Please, if you are able to do that. If you are not able, I would like to know why you are not answering my questions in French, in French.

I asked three questions. First, I wanted to know how long the period during which the alleged offences may be prosecuted is. I have not had an answer to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I understand, Madame.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I would like to know whether she can answer me in French.

[Le président, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I understand.

But—

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

It is just a question. Ms. Dawson could not answer in French. So I—

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

And the commissioner has been giving her answer

in both official languages.

I think we operate on that basis, and sometimes it's more of a courtesy to all when someone does that. I don't think it's meant to be anything else than that, but I'm sure the commissioner will respond accordingly. Okay?

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Chair, I asked Ms. Shepherd whether she could answer me in French, not you. I asked Ms. Shepherd the question. Can she answer my questions in French?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Madame, of course she is. She is fluent in French, yes.

Okay, Madame—

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

So let her answer, Mr. Szabo.

[Karen Shepherd]

Excuse me, Ms. Freeman, but sometimes it is easier for me to express myself in English.

On the first question, concerning the powers, the difference in this act is that now the act states that I have the power to conduct investigations or examine offences under the act and the Lobbyists' Code of Conduct.

Before that, the act gave only the power to examine offences under the Lobbyists' Code of Conduct. The Federal Court has held that the registrar of lobbyists also had the power to examine offences under the act. I am very pleased that the act now provides that I have the power to consider offences under both the act and the Lobbyists' Code of Conduct.

On the second point, the penalties have doubled and are now $50,000, on summary conviction, and a penalty for an offence, where there is an indictment. On summary conviction, there is a penalty of $200 and also imprisonment for two years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

One last question, Ms. Freeman?

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

On the question of your power, you have the power to prosecute if you have “reason to believe” that there has been an offence, where previously it was if you had “reasonable grounds to believe”.

Could you explain the distinction between the two?

I think senior counsel may be in the best position to answer.