Evidence of meeting #17 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you.
Being new to this committee, I'm interested in finding out what the processes are. There was a comment about best practices in different departments. You're all directors general, so you have the same role in different departments. Are there a lot of opportunities for collaborating and learning from one another?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, Treasury Board Secretariat offers ATIP community meetings, in which we're able to share best practices and comment on different issues. We collaborate with one another. If we want to see how things are working in similar departments, we call them to get feedback. There are various ways of collaborating.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Can you talk about the ATIP approval process at Treasury Board? Is there anything different from what we've heard already?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Treasury Board Secretariat
We have full delegation. I have full delegation as ATIP director. Once a request is ready to go out the door, we have three days....
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Please continue. I just wanted to mention that we have to move on to another person after your answer.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Treasury Board Secretariat
Depending on whether the request is routine or high visibility, I or my senior director will sign off on the file. Ultimately, though, I'm responsible for approving the release. If it's a high-visibility file, the secretary's office, as well as the office of the president, is provided a full copy of the release package. This is for information purposes only—we don't wait to hear back from them. After the three days are up, we release the information to the requester.
Bloc
Louis Plamondon Bloc Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Makichuk, when you were appointed to your position, I would presume that, before accepting it, you had a good idea of what was in store for you.
Did you speak with your predecessors to find out whether, for instance, under the former government, things happened the same way that they do today?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
After accepting the position at Public Works and Government Services Canada, I did meet with my predecessor, where we discussed matters of how the office operated. But I did not enter into a discussion about how the ATI process functioned under this particular government.
Bloc
Louis Plamondon Bloc Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC
If I were to put myself in the shoes of the citizen who is listening to you testify today, I would say that that means requests for information that the government does not want known. Without directly giving you these orders, he is telling you which path to take, namely, whether you should agree to the request or keep something secret. When I hear you speak, this is what you seem to be saying.
It seems that this is what happened in the case of Mr. Togneri. You were told to retrieve the envelope. For 82 days, you were told to remove 109 pages and to keep 30, which you could then forward to the requester. Essentially, you and your team were subject to political pressure from the government in order to proceed in this fashion. You agreed, in order to buy some peace and to demonstrate that you were accommodating. This accommodation between you and the government is always aimed at serving the government, and not necessarily at serving the truth, right?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I would like to clarify that my authority under the Access to Information Act is an authority that is delegated by the minister. I have no one overseeing my exercise of that authority. I have no one asking me or compelling me to make changes. I am a delegated authority. I have that authority, and I exercise that according to my experience, my judgment, and situations.
I cannot recall any time when I felt that I was being asked, from a political point of view, to protect, hide, or cover information—not at all.
In the specific case that has been raised, the situation was clear. There was a concern raised on the file. What the full nature of that concern was remained unknown. There was a very brief few moments in time, perhaps 30 minutes, under which to take action, and it was based on that compression of time that the decision was made to attempt to retrieve the envelope.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Earlier, you mentioned that the assistant deputy minister, Ms. Weber, had made the decision. You said that you had 30 minutes and that you were the only one making the decision, but the assistant deputy minister nevertheless exerted some pressure.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I was contacted by a member of the associate deputy's staff, who raised the urgency of the concern with me--that a concern had been raised and that it was urgent and needed to be dealt with. But that was the extent to which I had direction from the associate deputy's office.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
And thanks very much to each of you for being here. I think we're certainly getting a much better understanding of how things operate.
Can you hear me?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes. I'm sorry, I was just trying to catch your name.
Conservative
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thank you, Ms. Davidson. I'm sorry.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
I want to address my first questions to Jackie Holden, if I might, please.
Certainly we've heard a fair amount from your department, and we've had the minister here a couple of times discussing issues. I think we've also heard how well your department is doing with the numbers and with the access to information requests and how you're processing them. Congratulations for that. I know it's certainly a huge job.
Are you the one who has the delegated authority in your department?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
That's correct. As director of access to information and privacy, I have full delegated authority.
Conservative
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
There are approximately 40 individuals within our division.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Okay. What would you do in your department if there were a problem with a request? I don't even know what a problem would be, so perhaps you can help me define that as well. Do you flag a problem—whatever that is—and do you report to somebody else? How does that work?