Evidence of meeting #17 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, I was not in contact with Mr. Togneri.
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
I want to make sure that I have understood correctly. Earlier, you said that you were brand new. Who held the division before you?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The position of director of access to information and privacy at PWGSC was previously held on an acting basis by Rachelle Delage.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
You're never in contact with the political staff?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The only contact I ever had with political staff was by virtue of the weekly meeting, which is the meeting where the newly received requests are reviewed for their text to determine sensitivity. And at those meetings, the only political staff I ever encountered was Sébastien Togneri.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
How many times did you meet them? There may not be a ton of sensitive documents, but there must certainly be a good number of them. How many times did you meet with these people?
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Je suis désolé, monsieur.
But I would like to give the witness an opportunity to answer.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, the maximum I would meet with Mr. Togneri would be once a week; but in reality, I met with him far fewer times than that.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I want to thank all the witnesses for appearing this morning. I know that this is probably an unusual moment for you, and not one you probably expected to see as part of your duties.
Mr. Makichuk, I want to come back to the line that we were just exploring with Mr. Laframboise. You mentioned this weekly meeting where you review the text of original requests for access to information. Am I correct in assuming there is really a two-stage process here, one where you review all the requests that come in, then the department goes away and prepares what information they believe should be released, and then there's a notification of the minister's office when the information is about to be released?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There is a two-stage process in the sense that some requests are deemed to be sensitive and others are deemed to be non-sensitive. The non-sensitive ones are processed within the department and disclosures are made on a routine basis. These are the vast majority of requests at Public Works and Government Services Canada.
A smaller portion are those that are deemed sensitive by way of this weekly meeting, and it is these requests for which communications products are prepared and a variety of stakeholders within the department are informed prior to the release.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Who is involved in this weekly meeting in this determination of sensitive requests?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
At the time that this occurred the weekly meeting had a representative from the minister's office, which would have been Mr. Togneri. There was a representative from the associate deputy's office, which would have been Katia Dalpé-Charron. There would have been a representative from my office. There would have been representatives from the communications sector as well.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
What are the established criteria for sensitive or non-sensitive...?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The criteria are not set by my office or by my staff but are determined by a consensus as to the content or the nature of the request. If the request is something that has been of media or public interest or of parliamentary interest, that would be an indication of a sensitive nature.
Looking through documents recently, I understand that other criteria were applied, and this included whether the request was from the media or from a parliamentarian.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
So there is a process whereby certain requests are deemed to be more important or more sensitive than other requests?
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, more sensitive requests....
NDP
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, one political staff person was a participant in that meeting.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
But you said it's a consensus process, so they obviously have the ability to block that consensus if there is a disagreement about sensitivity.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There would arise situations where any member of the committee would have different information or a different point of view. As the remainder of the participants in the weekly meeting were public servants, they would necessarily lack information or a point of view that would lead to have greater understanding of political sensitivities. For that reason, Mr. Togneri would bring that perspective to the table.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
If it was deemed non-sensitive, is the minister's office still informed when that information is about to be released?