Information & Ethics Committee on June 17th, 2010

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I actually don't agree with you that there's something separate from a constitutional power and a ministerial power or responsibility. It seems to me that the doctrine of cabinet responsibility and ministerial responsibility are a part of the Constitution. As you're aware, many of these can be within either the written or unwritten parts of our Constitution.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

As you know, Minister...

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Again, I'm completely confident that this is within the Constitution.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Pardon me, Minister.

The Constitution states that Parliament has precedence over the executive arm of the government. You know this. You are a lawyer and Minister of Justice.

So, I want to know if you could provide us with a legal opinion. I am asking you the same question I asked earlier. Can you provide us with a legal opinion issued by one of your numerous lawyers, thus proving that Mr. Walsh is in error? I would like to get a legal opinion on constitutional power and not on your ministerial power. Would you be able to issue this opinion?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Well, again, what I'm prepared to tell you is that the ministerial responsibility in this country is clear. You mentioned the Constitution, but I'm of the opinion—you can accept my opinion for this, and I'm sure you will—that there are written and unwritten parts to the Canadian Constitution. I agree that certain parts with respect to ministerial responsibility come within the unwritten sections of the Constitution, but they are constitutional nonetheless.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Right now, you are giving us a political answer instead of a legal one.

Minister, I would like you to provide us with a written response. I want a written document stating that Mr. Walsh erred when he came here and issued this opinion. I want you to provide us with the legal opinion issued by one of your officials in order to prove that Mr. Walsh really did err.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Well, you may like certain things, Madame...

Chair, you said that mine is a political... But I also believe that it's consistent with legal precedents in this country that there is ministerial responsibility in this country and that is a part of the Constitution of this country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Merci, Madame.

Madam Davidson, please.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thanks very much for being here with us once again.

There's just a couple of things I'd like to clear up for the record. I have a letter in front of me, Mr. Minister, just in case you thought you may have done something that didn't get received by this committee. It did. I have a letter in front of me dated June 2 and addressed to the chair. It reads:

Thank you for your letter dated May 13, 2010, inviting me to appear before the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.

I would be pleased to accept your invitation to appear for an hour before the Committee on June 17, 2010 to respond to questions.

Then it goes on to talk about the two reports.

I also have in front of me a letter to the clerk, dated June 7, which reads:

As I indicated in my letter of June 2, 2010, I was pleased to accept the invitation to appear before the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics on June 17, 2010. While I am happy to appear before the Committee, I am only able to be present to discuss both reports for one hour only, as I stated in my previous letter.

I just wanted to make sure that this did get on the record. Sometimes things get misplaced, and sometimes with all due good intentions people can forget what they have read and what they have—

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I appreciate that, but again I have to accept what the chairman said, that you did not get that, and again, it's always difficult at this time of year, right near the end, to try to schedule these things. We do our very best to try to come up with a time slot to accommodate the committee. Again, I'm guessing they've gone through a number and that we perhaps are just about at the end of this.

In any case, thank you very much. Thank you for clarifying that.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I certainly appreciate your accommodation for us.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

It's my pleasure.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

The other thing I'd like to correct for the record is in response to some comments were made by a member opposite.

I'm just going to read from the testimony I have in front of me that was given to this committee on May 6, 2010, by Sébastien Togneri. It says:

Mr. Chair, I never said that I contravened the act, and, in my opinion, that question gives rise to hasty conclusions. That is my answer.

I think I already answered the question about directives. I did not receive any directives.

...As for the other question, once again, I think it gives rise to hasty conclusions. I never admitted to contravening the act.

So that is testimony that was—

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I appreciate you saying that, because this goes back to my original point. This is why I don't give any quasi-judicial decisions or comments on these things. If something is being investigated by the Information Commissioner, I don't go there.

Actually, that's a very good reason why any minister, anybody in my position, shouldn't get into pronouncing one way or the other on ongoing matters that are being looked into.

But thank you for that.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I certainly appreciate that and I appreciate your vast knowledge and experience in being able to respond to some of these quotes or some of these allegations that may be just that.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you. That's very nice.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I do have a question for you, though.

In your opening remarks, you said there were three new directives since the April 29 letter that you sent.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Yes.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Could you elaborate a bit on those directives, please?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Yes. They weren't issued by me, but by the President of the Treasury Board. I'll turn this over to Mr. Kratchanov, who might be able to give you some answers.

[Denis Kratchanov]

The directives seek to give guidance to government institutions in the application of the Privacy Act. One of them is on the issue of the need to notify the Privacy Commissioner if ever there is personal information that is released by accident by departments, so that the Privacy Commissioner is notified of that fact.

The other documents speak more generally to how the Privacy Act is to be applied. They provide general guidance to that effect. These directives are now available on the Treasury Board website for those who want to know more about their content. The Treasury Board itself conducts training sessions with each of the government institutions to make sure they understand these new directives and how they are to be applied.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you very much.

The other thing I would like to say, Minister, is that I was extremely interested in your comments on proactive disclosure. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but that is one of the items of study that has been before the subcommittee for this committee, and it is one that this side of the table certainly would have liked to see get under way this spring.

We all feel that it's extremely important. It is one of the best ways to get information out to the public. I was pleased to hear your remarks on proactive disclosure. Is there anything else you'd like to add to that?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

No. We all do our best on that, Ms. Davidson.

As I answered to Mr. Siksay, it's very helpful, and if you have a look at what we have done within the Department of Justice, you'll see many of these reports and the information.

The feedback I get is that it's very helpful. Again, this is one more aspect that we are undertaking to make sure that people get information, that we're transparent and as accountable as possible.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you very much.