Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
I have a question for Mr. Bernstein.
Every day, or thereabouts, we see newspaper articles about private companies who oppose the CBC. Do you think they are trying to discredit the CBC?
Moreover, a large proportion of access to information requests come from the largest private competitors. Do you think they're trying to discredit the CBC?
As an Individual
Absolument. Yes.
I will speak English, actually.
I do believe that this is all they're trying to do: discredit the CBC. I don't think it has anything to do with getting at real information that will bring any light to the subject of how the CBC works.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you very much for being here today. It's certainly interesting. I have some questions in regard to some of the responses to some of the questions others have put.
First of all, Mr. Bernstein, you mentioned earlier that you thought—I just want some clarification on this—that just because CTV or Global or somebody like that might have received a tax credit or something like that.... At what level does the access to information, the public funding, come into play? I would suggest to you that any business.... If there were two competing car dealerships, and one used the hiring tax credit to hire a few employees and the other one didn't, would that allow one car dealership to ask you and another...?
I think we need to be really careful when we're doing this, because I think everybody at some point in time—any business in Canada—that files and gets a tax return or gets a tax credit or a tax break on something.... I think we need to be really careful about the distinction between what direct funding is and what indirect tax breaks are for companies and corporations.
As an Individual
The larger portion of funding from the government is direct funding from funds that are created by governments to create more Canadian television. Canadian television can't be produced in this country with the amount of funds available to any network in this country from advertising.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Right. Let's face it, the difference between CBC and CTV, Global, and everybody else is the direct portion that's actually funded by the taxpayers of Canada to CBC. Ms. Denton gladly pointed out that it's $34 for every man, woman, and child in the country.
As an Individual
But could we be fair here to mention that CBC does raise close to $500 million that is not coming from the government?
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Sure, that's fine. So is everybody else in the broadcasting business. They're making enough money to pay for their own operations.
I think the frustrating thing for Canadians in this particular case is that there doesn't seem to be a clear enough dispute mechanism here to resolve questions of section 68.1 in the act so that it actually has to get the commissioner involved and a judge involved.
The other part that's really frustrating in this—and nobody seems to have commented on this--is we have a taxpayer-funded organization using taxpayers' funds to put up a defence versus a taxpayer-funded office of the commissioner of access to information, fighting each other in a court paid for by the taxpayers of Canada. I'm wondering if you could provide any clarification of what needs to happen here. This isn't in the best interests of taxpayers, clearly, unless we get to an endgame where we get the transparency we're looking for.
As an Individual
I think I've made myself completely clear. I think it's wrong. I think the CBC should open their books more than is even asked for. I think the CBC's books should be wide open for everyone to see.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
I agree with you.
You speculated about what the risks are, but once those things get explained, these things tend to go away. I think CBC is making a strategic mistake right here, actually causing themselves more harm, but that's just my personal opinion.
Do you think that just because there are 1,000 access to information requests coming from one particular source that it makes any of them less valid?
As an Individual
I think that's up to the commissioner, not up to CBC and not up to us. We hired someone to do that job, and it's their job to decide whether the requests were fair or not. As I said earlier, I believe they will make those decisions in a fair and honest way.
Conservative
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Ms. Denton, you mentioned that your group is largely concerned about the long-term survival of the CBC. I'm sure you've heard the same things that I've heard. There is certainly some concern that the CBC, for example, hosted an event at the Toronto International Film Festival that was not open to the public and spent an unknown amount of money on that. Are you not concerned that as long as there is concern about how money is being spent there, this in fact threatens the CBC? It's not what the programming is, it's not even whether or not they have a radio station in Peterborough, which I'm sure we'd all welcome, but it's the fact that people can't determine how their money is being spent. Isn't that a bigger threat?
I Love CBC - Peterborough
Yes, it's tough out there, and people don't like to see money misspent anywhere, any time. Your government knows this; any government in power knows this.
Sure, it concerns people, but you can't go to the movies with the family for $34. People do put it into perspective. This is a bargain.
NDP
The Chair NDP Jean Crowder
Thank you.
I just want to clarify a point that I think Mr. Calkins raised, that in the court both sides are funded by taxpayers, both the Office of the Information Commissioner and the CBC, so it's not just one side that's taxpayer-funded in this dispute. I just wanted to make sure that we were clear. I think there was some confusion.
Conservative
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Ms. Denton, I would ask for your thoughts on how you would feel about a private corporation using the bludgeon, for lack of a better way, of Canada's courts and access to information and taxpayer dollars to further its own private interests.