Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Can you give me your opinion on a private corporation using access to information legislation, thus Canadian taxpayer dollars, to further its own private interest?
I Love CBC - Peterborough
How would I feel about that? I don't know of that situation.
You're saying that Sun Media uses taxpayers' dollars to promote--
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
No, I'm suggesting that the private interests are using this process, the Access to Information Act, causing the CBC to up its staff to seven, fight in the courts, all on taxpayers' dollars, to further its own interests.
I Love CBC - Peterborough
Well, the bottom line, to me, is the damage done to the CBC. These things have a backlash.
The publicity given in Sun Media publications against the CBC I think is beginning to tire people, to irritate them, and it is looking rather silly.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Mr. Bernstein, my colleague asked you earlier if you have ever gone to the CBC website and their public records on spending and so forth. You're saying that, for you, that wasn't clear enough or it wasn't transparent enough. In what way?
As an Individual
In what way? The details aren't there. It gives general numbers about how much is spent to create a show or how much is spent on management. These are big numbers—
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Have you gone into the specific departments and the specific personnel who work there?
I've gone to the website, and in one case it actually itemizes the receipts of the individual, where they were spent, and how much was there. That's how detailed it is.
As an Individual
The best thing I can tell you, as someone who worked there for many years, who was in an executive position--
NDP
As an Individual
Yes, I have, and what I'm telling you is that I know for a fact that it is not clear and it still doesn't give you all the information you need.
NDP
Tyrone Benskin NDP Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Okay. And you don't believe in proprietary protection of intellectual property or issues of that nature, as far as—
As an Individual
There are proprietary issues, but I think the commissioner can figure those out.
I don't believe proprietary issues are the reason for stopping the information. I think they're stopping the information for fear of embarrassment.
As an Individual
That is absolutely an opinion, but it's an opinion of someone who worked for CTV, Global, and CBC. It's the opinion of someone who spoke to many people at CBC about this issue when I knew I was coming here. The people I spoke to at CBC told me the very same thing. They do not believe it's proprietary at all.
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Good morning, Mr. Bernstein and Ms. Denton.
Mr. Bernstein, I have never worked at the CBC, so I have to take what you're telling us as fact today and appreciate the issue with regard to Mr. Benskin's questions vis-à-vis the statements.
I come from a business background, so I understand that in business we are all accountable through CRA reporting. We're accountable for ensuring that we meet our financial obligations, pay our taxes, and account for our expenses and all the things that go on at year-end and so on. I also agree with you that behind the statements are tremendous volumes of detail that would take us much deeper into the accounts and that there is no possible way that all of that detail could be included on a website. To the extent that it is, kudos to them, but at the end of the day, if somebody wants to go deeper, they have to gain access.
Ms. Denton, on your comment on competitiveness with regard to the information requests, you said that these requests put us at a disadvantage--I take it that you consider yourself part of the CBC family as a member of Friends of the CBC--that they don't want to expose their plans, and that there should be an open and transparent ability for the disclosure of statements and what not from the CBC. Failure to do that tarnishes their reputation.
My issue is to the point that they receive $1 billion in funding per year, which the government has said is in place. We made the commitment. It is in place. So to your point of value from the Harper government, that is still there. I am not debating whether it is too much or too little. It is $1 billion of taxpayers' money. If nobody showed up to watch the CBC, then from an accountability perspective, it would still get the $1 billion. As for all the other enterprises, if nobody showed up, the advertisers would pull the plug. At the end of the day, these organizations would go out of business, because they're accountable to their shareholders and to the people who watch and to the quality of the productions they show.
My issue, Ms. Denton, if I could direct this to you, is where you believe the accountability starts and stops in terms of your taxpayer dollars and my taxpayer dollars that go to fund that organization. At what point do we have the right to know how effectively the organization is run?
I Love CBC - Peterborough
Sure, we have that right.
I've left the wrong impression. I wasn't aware that I had. I am not here on behalf of Friends of Canadian Broadcasting in any way. I am here as an ordinary Canadian who has been part of a large group: I Love CBC--Peterborough.
On accountability, yes, people have to be held accountable. The government is held accountable.
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
Do you think $1 billion is a reasonable amount of money to be held accountable for in terms of how effectively you are spending your money?
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
Is access to information something that should be allowed or something we put a brick wall around and fight so that nobody can gain access to that information?
I Love CBC - Peterborough
Are you asking me if you think you're engaged in an important study, a legitimate study?
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
No. I believe that we are, as a committee, trying to find out how this all works and why the issues exist the way they do. As a member of this committee, I'm just trying to understand from our witnesses the point at which we agree that accountability for receiving $1 billion is a legitimate request.
