Information & Ethics Committee on April 22nd, 2013

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to you and your team for being here today, Commissioner, and obviously for your great service to us over many years. We certainly will look forward to having you back, and hopefully a couple of times, before you're officially retired. We enjoy having you come to this committee. You're always very helpful and insightful.

You did say in your presentation that your office was not subject to the deficit reduction action plan, although your office did, as you say, answer the call “to adhere to its spirit and intent”, and you did manage to implement savings of 5% of your base budget, or $1.1 million per year. Do you want to be a little more specific?

How were you able to achieve those cost reductions, even though I think we all appreciate the fact that you're endeavouring to run the office, treat taxpayers' money respectfully, and still provide the services that you have to provide? How were you able to find those savings just on your own?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Well, we did some very detailed examinations of our budget, and $700,000 of that came from something called the “fiscal framework”, which I gather is money that is set aside by Treasury Board in the main budget but that has not yet been granted to the office. We renounced that, which is why we're foreseeing a period of austerity for several years, because there are no credits available to give to us.

We renounced that. The other $400,000 we are obtaining through various cost-cutting savings in reducing the scope of many of our expenses. I mentioned the move with agents of Parliament. We hope that will save us money in various activities so that we can reduce our overhead.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I also note in your projections going forward that you're not recommending any reductions in your full-time equivalents over the next several years. You're noting 181 FTEs for this year, next year, and the year thereafter. You're not achieving those cost reductions by eliminating positions within the office. It's in other areas that you've been able to find some cost savings.

Can you comment on that complement of 181? I know that some of my colleagues on both sides have talked about the challenges in the office, the caseload, and the types of things that are happening. Is that a number that you're confident about, given the shift in the cases that you're dealing with and how the general workflow in the office is working? I'm pleased to see that you're flatlining the number. Again, I think that shows some responsibility in the times that we're all dealing with right now, but Canadians expect a certain level of service as well.

On this 181 FTEs factor that you're looking at, is it a number that you're confident about going forward with over the next three fiscal years? Do you think we'll still maintain the levels of service with it and achieve the goals that you've set out in your work plan?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Thank you for that question, honourable member.

I don't know if it's so much that I am confident in the number of 181 FTEs, but I understand that it is what I've been given to work with and that I have to be realistic about the demands I may make on the government at this particular time, given the overall environment of restraint.

This is why I turn rather to the reform of the privacy laws in order to let us operate in a much more cost-efficient way, and also, ideally, to bring.... As we look at models around the world, in many of the countries where the commissioners can impose fines or fines are granted by the courts, the money then goes back to the government treasury to help fund this. We have none of this in the Canadian model, so ideally, if you said to me, “Could you keep another 10 technologists busy tomorrow?”, yes, I could. Yes, I certainly could, but we are trying to stay within this allotment.

What we are doing as well is that when people move on, although we have a very low turnover rate at this time, we're questioning how we can combine functions or do things otherwise to make more efficient use of this.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Do I have time for a last question, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Yes.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Here's my last quick question. You have mentioned a number of the newer initiatives and newer challenges. Mr. Carmichael was asking you some questions about that. How are you keeping your staff up-to-date in these emerging changes and challenges?

Do you want to talk a little bit about the staff development side? You were talking about drones and other things that maybe people in your office.... I certainly don't know a lot. How are you making sure that your people are up-to-date on what they need to know in order to deal with these emerging privacy issues, with these cases that are now coming in that many of us wouldn't be aware of or have never dealt with before and that certainly some of your people won't have seen before? What are you doing to deal with that challenge in making sure that your staff are up-to-date, as much as they can be, with those emerging trends?

I think I'll be done then. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Ms. Stoddart, could you kindly answer that question in one minute.

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Mr. Chair, I am going to ask the assistant commissioner to answer.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

One minute? You're a tough chairman.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Ms. Bernier, you have a minute and a half.

[Chantal Bernier]

First of all, we have a very well-developed training program, and that means on both legal issues and technological issues, as well as on writing decisions.

We also have a strong component on the four priorities. Each is led by someone who chairs a working group on that priority. They bring in people from the outside. They will feed in research, making sure that our staff is always abreast of the latest developments on each of the priority issues.

In addition to that, we have a very good, strong research function, which produces internal research so that all our work is based on absolutely the most up-to-date knowledge of the issues at hand. Of course our outreach and our stakeholder relationships are very helpful in that regard. We actually listen. We actually sit down with the various stakeholders to know what is coming up so that we are always ready for it.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you for your answer.

Mr. Boulerice, go ahead for five minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Ms. Stoddart and our other witnesses for still being here. It's greatly appreciated.

Ms. Stoddart, you've been on the job since 2003, so you've seen how things have changed in the past decade. The first question I want to ask you is a tough one. It has nothing to do with the calibre of the work that your office does; it's about the environment as a whole. Do you think Canadians' privacy is more protected today than it was in 2003, or is it more at risk?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

That's a tough question, but I won't take too long to think about it before answering. It is clear that Canadians' privacy is more at risk despite all the efforts that my team and others have made. The fact that Canadians' privacy is more at risk is due to technological advancements and the introduction of certain measures, like initiatives to record people's conversations in Canadian airports.

The encouraging thing, however, is that, in my view, the legislation has become stronger, in terms of not just the two acts I talked about today, but other legislative measures as well. I read that the Minister of Justice talked to one of his counterparts about the possibility of strengthening the Criminal Code to prohibit certain behaviours, such as distributing photos online. I believe we do have some tools to deal with those threats.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Speaking of tools, I was just going to bring that up.

In 2010-11, complaints went up by 35%. New technologies that intrude more on people's privacy are being used. Today, there are data brokers. I didn't know there was even such a thing until a recent study we did. As a business model, they are actually quite worrisome. Then, you also have the phenomenon of Street View-type applications, which allow you to see licence plates on vehicles and people's homes. Do you think your office should have additional resources to face these mounting challenges?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Ideally, as I mentioned to your colleague, the answer is yes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In the past few months, we've seen situations where USB flash drives containing the financial data of some 500,000 people, in some cases, have been misplaced. I know the incidents are under investigation, but I would still venture to ask you a question.

As far as those infamous USB flash drives go, can you assure us, or are you certain, that the information was properly encrypted or protected, thus preventing anyone from being able to access the data?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

Mr. Boulerice, I think that pertains to the details of the investigation. Even if I knew the answer to that—which I don't because I'm not aware of the details of the investigation—I couldn't reveal that information at this time. That investigation is a priority because of the ramifications and the number of Canadians who complained. I hope you'll have an answer soon.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I suspected you would say as much, but I was trying to get a scoop.

Earlier, you referred to a new challenge and a concern you had. I wrote it down, and I would like you to elaborate a bit more on that. What concerns you about the use of drones and their impact on Canadians? More specifically, what are your misgivings or fears as far as drones go?

[Jennifer Stoddart]

I'll start with the good news. There are relatively few drones. There aren't many of them in Canada, and the Department of Transport has to issue those licences, so their operation is fairly well contained. However, the assistant commissioner, who oversaw that file, may be more up to date on the issue than I am.

Obviously, the danger stems from the fact that these devices have the capacity to easily provide information on the daily activities of all Canadians, not to mention that they are pretty inexpensive to buy and can be used by amateurs. That isn't happening just yet. But our office has to be ahead of the curve on such issues. Imagine you're in your backyard or you're out for a leisurely Sunday drive or stroll, and a drone is monitoring you. We have to think that in the future, someone other than the state may have that ability. Will the state do it? It's worrisome. When and under what conditions will it happen? We see it happening in other countries. Those are the kinds of questions we need to ask.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

Ms. Stoddart, that brings your time with us to a close. Thank you.

With respect to the main estimates, I must put the matter to a vote, pursuant to the rules. I will now switch to English.

JUSTICE Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Vote 45--Program expenditures..........$26,628,405

Shall vote 45, less the amount voted in interim supply, carry?

(Vote 45 agreed to)

Very well.

We will take a short break, so you can gather your things and head out, as we have other business on our agenda.

Ms. Stoddart, thank you once again for being here today, and we look forward to seeing you before your term is officially over.

[Proceedings continue in camera]