Information & Ethics Committee on July 17th, 2020

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Thank you. That is noted.

Mrs. Shanahan, do you wish to respond to Mr. Barrett's request?

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Okay. It is as follows:

In cooperation with other standing committees, the Committee also reviews any bill, federal regulation or Standing Order which impacts upon its main areas of responsibility: access to information, privacy and the ethical standards of public office holders. It may also propose initiatives in these areas and promote, monitor and assess such initiatives.

I did read that out. My understanding is that this is if we are reviewing a bill—for example, we have a statutory requirement to review the Conflict of Interest Act, so we may be reviewing that—a federal regulation that comes forward, an initiative, or federal privacy or ethical standards. The initiative could be a general study as to whether we have the tools or whether there is a gap in place. I think that is what we are discussing here.

For my part, I think the mandate is very clear that we are here to examine whether the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner has the tools he needs to proceed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Sorry, Mrs. Shanahan, but I'm going to stop you here.

The members at this table need to honour the other members at this table who have the mike, please. Thank you.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I appreciate that, Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Yes, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

On a point of order, I guess it's that we're being told by the government what our committee is allowed to study, when the mandate clearly allows us the initiative to deal with issues of conflict of interest. That is a long-standing tradition. I guess I find it a little offensive that I'm being told by the government what we're allowed to study, when it's within the mandate.

If the government is just going to rag the puck for three hours and not allow us to vote, why don't they just tell us they're going to talk this out? Then we can go on our phones or do other things. Rather than interfere with our work by telling us, as the government, that we are not allowed to study what is within the purview of the conflict of interest and ethics codes....

I find that personally offensive. I would rather she tell us clearly: Is she going to talk out the clock so that we can't get to a vote? That would be a lot clearer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Mr. Angus, I'm sorry, but I don't believe that's a point of order. Thank you.

Mrs. Shanahan.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you.

Indeed, I am very dismayed at a comment of that nature. As a member of Parliament, as a parliamentarian, the mandate that the House of Commons has given to the standing committees is of utmost importance to me. It's something that I think we need to remind ourselves of periodically. We are a creature of the House. Yes, we have wide powers to determine our own procedures and how we are going to conduct our business. We did so in our first meeting, when it concerned the conditions of going in camera. That meeting, I thought, really showed the common interest that we had here as members. We were sensitive to the fact that names can be brought up, personal names of people who have nothing to do with running for office or being here, and that we would not be dragging personal names—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

One moment.

Mr. Gourde, you have a point of order.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

What we have here is a lot of figure skating. Honestly! Even the Prime Minister said in the House that every committee is entitled to determine how it wishes to conduct its work. I have been here for almost 15 years now and have never heard that we were straightjacketed in any way. It is up to the committee to decide what it wishes to do. Since when does our mandate prevent us from studying a particular subject or place restrictions on our work? This is the first I've heard about it.

With all due respect, Mrs. Shanahan, I can't really see where you're headed with this. You're just skating around the issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Mrs. Shanahan.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I don't believe this is the first time you've heard this. In past meetings of this committee—some members were here before me—a Conservative MP's activities were investigated. I will not mention his name because I'm not in the habit of doing so.

It was actually Mr. Angus who said that just because this person—if I need to say their name, I will, but I really would rather not—drags his political enemies before our committee and drags their dirty laundry out—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

A point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I find it bizarre that I am being quoted when I don't know whom I had been speaking about. If she's willing to name me, then she should just tell the story, it seems. Otherwise, it's bizarre that I'm being dragged into it.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Okay. It's Dean Del Mastro.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Oh, well, Dean Del Mastro; then that's fair.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Continue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Are you raising a point of order, or do you wish to be added to the speakers list?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Go ahead.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I don't think that these repeated interruptions are moving the committee's debates forward.

My colleague will make her comments and then Mr. Angus will be entitled to make his. I can't for the life of me see how it is useful to continually interrupt our colleague and deputy chair to ask her questions or presume what she is going to say.

I would ask you, Madam Chair, to be less tolerant of these interruptions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rachael Thomas]

Thank you, Mr. MacKinnon.

Mrs. Shanahan.