Okay.
Evidence of meeting #12 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobbying.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #12 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobbying.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
2:10 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
My reports to Parliament have been on the code of conduct.
On breaches of the act, offences, I have sent 10 reports to the RCMP. Therefore, I can't report to Parliament until either individuals are charged or the RCMP comes back to me because they don't plan on charging them.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Right. It would vary each time, once you detect or suspect criminality and you make that referral to the RCMP. That could happen at any juncture during your investigation.
2:10 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
If we consider that I've been in office for a little less than three years and I have sent 10 investigations to the RCMP, I would say that on average, some may have taken three months to send there and some may have taken less than a year, obviously.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay.
In your view, should post-employment restrictions for designated public office holders in the Lobbying Act be extended to apply to former public office holders, such as members of Parliament who are not currently covered?
2:15 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I'm not sure I fully understand the question. Every former designated public office holder is subject to the five-year prohibition, unless, of course, they work for a corporation and the activities of lobbying would be less than 20%. There is a small exemption there, and I find that there is no explanation for that exemption. It should be the same whether or not you work for an organization or a corporation. Currently, everyone who's a former designated public office holder is subject to the five-year prohibition.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Do you believe that all members of the House should be included?
2:15 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Members of the House are currently included.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay.
In the Lobbying Act, with respect to an organization with in-house lobbyists, there's a requirement to register within two months of the time when the combined lobbying activities of all employees over a period of 30 days amounts to at least 20% of the work of a single full-time employee. Could you clarify for us what that usually looks like? I appreciate that you did touch on this aspect during your opening remarks.
2:15 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
What this means is that if you look at the total of the communications of all employees and you added this all up, it would amount to approximately one day of an employee's work per week, which is about 32 hours a month, if you look at it over a month's time.
When we calculate it, it's not an easy task. It is a bit of a burden, because we have to look at how many communications occurred and how much time was spent on these communications. It is also about the preparation time. It's the presentations that are being done, the length of the communications and then the meetings. We add all this up to determine whether or not 30 hours was met within a month.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
As you know and have stated, there was a review of the act set to take place in 2017, and three years later that has yet to take place.
We have just about two minutes left in my questions to you. Could you share with us what recommendations you have for the act, because in a minority context we don't know when the next election might be and we might have another election before the review that was due three years ago actually takes place.
2:15 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
If you've ever taken the time to read the Lobbying Act, you saw that it's extremely complicated and has lot of little issues that should be fixed. I can't fix it all in the context of a review, so the approach I have taken is values based, which means that unless a recommendation enhances transparency, efficiency, fairness and clarity, I'm not going to bother.
I've come down with approximately 13 recommendations for it. I'm consistently looking at them again and adapting as my experience grows and as time goes by. Clearly, there's the eliminating of a significant part of duties and hopefully enhancing a spectrum of sanctions, because right now it's either a report to Parliament or the RCMP. Also, there's certainly harmonizing the time limits between 10 days for a consultant to register versus 60 days for an in-house lobbyist, and eliminating the inconsistencies between what in-house corporations and organizations have to disclose on the website.
What other ones do I have? I have....
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
If I can just interrupt, I think I have about 30 seconds left.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I do appreciate your responses and I have looked at your recommendations, and thank you for sharing some of them with us today.
I have a last question, and while I know the answer, I'd just like you to share for folks who are listening that you cannot in fact confirm what investigations are ongoing in your office.
2:15 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I can't. I can't confirm. I'm doing the best to be as transparent as I can by giving you numbers, which I hope gives some comfort to the committee that we are really on top of the files, but no, I can't confirm which investigations I'm looking at.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I appreciate that very much, Madam. Thank you.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Madam Bélanger. Even though it's public knowledge, if you do table those recommendations with the clerk, then we could very well incorporate them into whatever report we do after the study.
Now we'll move onto Madam Shanahan for six minutes.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Madam Bélanger, for appearing before us today.
I just want to clarify something for the committee and those listening to us. What is the difference between a designated public office holder and a member of the House? I'm not sure that I caught that in the last exchange.
2:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The Lobbying Act identifies two groups of people, public office holders and then designated public office holders. Public office holders are practically all public servants, members of Parliament, senators and their respective staff, and GIC appointments. If somebody communicates with any of them, they must register as a lobbyist.
Designated public office holders are ministers and their staff, senators, members of Parliament. When the lobbyist communicates with them, they have an additional burden to do a monthly communication report. They actually have to go in the system to add that they've had a discussion with these people, but these designated public office holders are also individuals who are prohibited from lobbying when they leave office.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Do I understand correctly that it is the responsibility of the lobbyists to make sure that they have complied with those rules?
2:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, absolutely. When they communicate with you, it's on their shoulders to make sure that they register those communications.
However, I would add that we do have a system imposed by the act whereby we need to verify the content of those monthly communication reports, so you may sometimes receive an email from me asking you to verify something, and you have the obligation to answer me to confirm whether or not the information that has been put in the registry is accurate. We do a 5% sample every month, so you may or may not have been contacted before. I don't know, but that is a heads-up that you may get that once in a while, and it is not to be thrown into your junk box.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
I hope it isn't thrown into the junk box. Thank you for that.
Again, for the purpose of clarity, does your mandate—and you did mention the three major tasks that you have—include overseeing all buying and selling transactions with the Government of Canada?
2:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
No. Procurement is not part of my mandate. However, communication about awarding of contracts is a registerable activity if you're a consultant lobbyist; it's not if you're an in-house lobbyist. I do not regulate procurement in government.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal