No.
Evidence of meeting #12 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobbying.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #12 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobbying.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
For the businesses that register there, you do not oversee that?
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
How would you rate the lobbying disclosure regime in Canada, Ms. Bélanger? Are we on par with other countries or are we ahead of the curve?
2:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I think we're ahead of the curve in the sense that internationally we are a model. People look up to us quite a bit, and we have fantastic people who have been working on this registry. People have only good things to say about the registry. It works well.
That said, there needs to be improvement, and I would highly recommend that the committee look at the new B.C. legislation that was adopted in May. Their law has changed and has fixed some of the issues that I have with our rules.
The registry works well, but some of it needs to be fixed up.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Bélanger, you did give us some figures about the number of activities you would have had to deal with in an average year prior to the pandemic. Could you compare that quantity with what your office is experiencing now during the pandemic, and maybe talk a little bit about the quality? You clearly indicated that the quantity has increased dramatically.
2:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Comparing it to 2019 would not really be fair, because that was an election year, so the numbers would always go down in any event. If I compare the numbers from 2018, for the full year of 2018 there were 27,000 monthly communications. We're already at 21,000, and there are still four months left in the year.
For summer months, the numbers are usually in the 1,500s. This past summer the numbers per month were closer to 2,000 communications. I could share statistics per month if you want, but for sure, if you compare summers and if you compare totals, the last few months have been extremely busy.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Do tell us about that, because obviously we were in an extraordinary period. I remember when the COVID-19 mobilization call for action went out. Can you talk about what all of the emergency programs and the extraordinary response of industry and commerce to that call by the government have meant for your office?
2:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I have a team of only three individuals in client services. In fact, I have a team of 28 employees, so we're very small. These three employees were extremely busy helping out the 1,700 new registrants who had really no idea how to do this. We were front and centre in helping them to register.
We also very quickly developed guidance for individuals to know whether or not they should register, because sometimes all that people do is apply to get a grant, and just applying is not lobbying. We had to clarify that—
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
I'm sorry to cut you off, Commissioner. I gave you some extra time to finish. It was an important answer, but we're way over on that segment.
Now we'll move on to Madame Gaudreau.
2:25 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, Ms. Bélanger.
2:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Good afternoon.
2:25 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
We are very glad to see you again. You met with us during the first session of Parliament. It's always easier to meet in person than remotely. Don't you think?
2:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Absolutely.
2:25 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I have a few questions for you.
In carrying out your responsibilities, do you ever work with other commissioners? I am talking about helping one another in terms of monitoring for potential red flags. How does that work?
2:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Each commissioner has their own specific mandate and their own obligations when it comes to confidentiality.
However, I will say that the officers of Parliament have met twice since the pandemic began to gauge how employees were doing and see how everyone was feeling. We also wanted to see how we could help one another, so we discussed some ideas.
For instance, I had put together a guide in preparation for an eventual return to work, and I shared it with my fellow commissioners. When I need to provide French-language education, I contact them because I don't have enough people on my small team to deliver that service, so that's how we help each other out.
2:25 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Sorry to interrupt, but I really wanted to talk about monitoring. You aren't talking about the same type of monitoring Mr. Dion was referring to earlier. He said that, as a matter of course, he kept a close eye on the committee's proceedings.
I'll give you an example of something that happened this summer: we found out that Sofia Marquez was not in the registry of lobbyists. Is that the kind of information that comes to you automatically? Can you take immediate action?
2:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, absolutely. My apologies, but I hadn't quite understood your question.
As you can see from my statistics, I initiated 16 preliminary assessments this summer. I certainly stay on top of what all the parliamentary committees are doing. I also watch committee meetings, which I find quite interesting. I pay attention to media reports as well.
All that to say I am abreast of what is happening in Parliament, and very often, that prompts me to take a deeper look at what is happening elsewhere.
2:25 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I have a question specifically about Palantir Technologies. Mr. MacNaughton, Canada's former ambassador to the U.S., was also involved in negotiating the Canada—U.S.—Mexico agreement, or CUSMA. He was reprimanded for improper lobbying.
My point is that Mr. MacNaughton had no trouble gaining access to the Deputy Prime Minister or Minister Bains. What is your take on the situation? Are you surprised by how easily Mr. MacNaughton was able to get meetings with them?
2:30 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I don't think I'm the right person to ask.
My job is to determine whether a designated former public office holder, who is prohibited from lobbying, did any lobbying.
Unfortunately, that is all I can say about that.
2:30 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I see.
I will move on to another question.
The WE Charity communicated with 19 federal institutions over a period of 18 months. You know that; we all do. However, it was not until August—right before three of the organization's representatives appeared before the committee—that the organization registered to lobby the federal government. Since 2015, the WE Charity has received millions of dollars in contributions.
How do you explain such a major lobbying violation?
2:30 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Again, I can't comment specifically on that case.
What I am willing to say, however, is that there seems to be some misunderstanding of the obligations in the Lobbying Act. A few times, I did hear the WE Charity representatives say that the government had contacted them, not the other way around.
Who contacts who isn't really germane to whether any lobbying took place. Generally, I would say there may be a lack of understanding of the act.
I also saw news stories claiming that the organization might be cleared of any wrongdoing because it had registered. Someone who decides to register has to be transparent, which is what I encourage. We were able to see what the communications were, but that does not mean that any review I might be conducting stops because the individual has registered.
2:30 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Your efforts are appreciated. Thank you for all your hard work.
With all the grey areas, we are realizing how important it is to provide people with education because the repercussions can be many. As I told Mr. Dion earlier, we are the stewards of public money. I think your 13 recommendations should be given priority. Sometimes, in committees, we waste time; you would know that as someone who watches committee proceedings. Implementing your recommendations is so important because it would help save us from what we are engaged in today.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative