Information & Ethics Committee on May 14th, 2021

[Caroline Maynard]

For example, in the grievance world where I used to work, if an employee would ask through the Privacy Act, they would receive just the information that's about that person in particular. However, if you do an Access to Information Act request about the decision that was rendered and that you're grieving, you may get the policy that goes around that and the discussions that took place at the meetings, so it's more than just the information about yourself.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I see. Can you give an example for the Privacy Act?

[Caroline Maynard]

That's exactly the one. If the person asks through the Privacy Act, I believe they're going to get only the information about themselves.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

That's great.

You mentioned that the additional resources might help your office to clear up the backlog a bit. Can you expand a little bit on that?

[Caroline Maynard]

We're hiring 21 new investigators, and we've also started a development program within the office, so we're hoping that these people will stay for more than two years. Often we train them and they get all the knowledge, and then the institutions that are doing ATIP are looking for analysts, so they may come and get them.

Now we have a program in which the people are starting at the junior level, but within my office they can move up two levels within six years. With 21 new investigators, we can count on about 40 cases per investigator per year, so we're hoping that we're going to get through a big chunk of our inventory with the training of these new people.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

The 270-day target will probably be improved with these....

[Caroline Maynard]

Yes, that's the goal.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

We'll turn to Madame Gaudreau now for the next two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Maynard, in an article in La Presse on May 11, a reporter by the name of Marquis stated that access to information requests in French take longer to process than requests in English. I'm sure you've heard about this.

My two questions are very simple.

Are you aware of what was mentioned in the May 11 article about the commitment of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) to respond just as quickly in English as in French?

If you are aware, do you know if this is a problem elsewhere?

I am the poster child for togetherness. My colleague Mr. Fergus can attest to my concern for fairness. For me, it's not just a matter of legislation, it's a matter of fairness.

[Caroline Maynard]

I read the article too, Ms. Gaudreau.

I have not seen any complaints about that, but I would not be surprised if that was the case elsewhere. It is not always easy to find bilingual people, people who speak French in the federal government. Especially when it comes to finding people from a particular region, as we said earlier.

We really need to create positions and find employees who speak both languages.

Once again, it is very difficult to find people who want to work in access to information. It's a very demanding position. You're dealing with requesters who are eager to get the information, but you're also dealing with a department that doesn't want to respond, doesn't have time to respond, or has other more important things to do. It's not an easy job.

Service delivery in both languages has always been precarious in the government.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I would actually like to have an overview of the situation. First, I read in an article in La Presse that the number of bilingual employees is very limited in the RCMP, and second, you confirm that.

I think that, in the interest of providing access to information in both languages, which is clearly stated in part IV of the Official Languages Act, I would like us to look at this issue. We have outstanding interpretation services and we do manage to work in both languages, and I think that is necessary.

Thank you very much for joining us, Ms. Maynard.

[Caroline Maynard]

You're welcome.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Madam Gaudreau. Thank you, Commissioner.

We're going to turn to Mr. Angus for the next two and a half minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Madame Maynard.

We received a letter this week from a Conservative MP, Mr. Kmiec, who said that he had 18 outstanding access to information requests to Global Affairs, Public Services and Procurement, Innovation Canada, and the Department of Finance that were being ignored. He said they disregarded his requests, they refused to acknowledge requests, and they declined to provide documents.

I'm trying to get a sense of whether that is a pattern that you're seeing. Are you dealing with these kinds of complaints more and more, or is this a one-off?

[Caroline Maynard]

We definitely see some complaints with delays in the government because of the lack of resources. I'm not seeing so much that they're not responding at all. Institutions have an obligation to respond within 30 days, and if they don't respond within 30 days, they have an obligation to tell you why and what the extension is that they're taking. If they're not responding, if there's a silence, you have a right to complain to my office within 60 days of the time that you know you haven't received a response.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I asked that because I am concerned. I know I've had Liberal governments and Conservative governments, and governments never want to actually have to respond to requests because it means they sometimes have to reveal stuff that gets them into trouble. However, access to information is our lifeblood as the opposition. It's how we survive. It's the same as journalism: It's a fundamental of democracy.

Even though we are in a pandemic and even though we know that everybody's been stressed out, we need to make sure that we're dealing with compliance with the law. It is very important. I just want to get a sense that you're focused on making sure that people are complying and are not using COVID as a means to ignore access to information requests that may be politically sensitive.

[Caroline Maynard]

We've actually issued a report on an institution, Canadian Heritage, that had completely stopped its activities last summer after the pandemic, and we did our investigation right away. Luckily, it resulted in it reopening. We are keeping an eye on all the institutions to make sure they are respecting their obligations. I have made a lot of statements. I wrote to Minister Duclos to remind him of his obligation also as the administrator of the act.

I think that in a pandemic, it's even more important that Canadians receive the information that they're asking for, because we're all concerned with what's going on, so we need to make sure that we know where the money is being spent, where decisions are being made. The act is not something that you can ignore during a pandemic.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

We're going to turn to Monsieur Gourde for the next five minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Commissioner, do you have the discretion to accept or reject a complaint if it is unfounded, or does every complaint automatically lead to an investigation?

[Caroline Maynard]

As of 2019, I have the authority to refuse to investigate and to stop an investigation if I believe the complaint is frivolous or unreasonable or if it was made in bad faith. I must admit that I have not done so yet, because it is very difficult to determine at the outset. You have to investigate a little to see what the person wants and whether there is a link with what was received. You have to do some of the work anyway.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Earlier, you also said that many complaints were related to the Department of Immigration. I think many of them are well founded, because we, in our constituency offices, have to work a great deal with the department. People have a lot of trouble finding their file through the red tape. I have rarely seen cases in my riding that have resolved themselves. It is very unfortunate because our offices have sort of become Service Canada offices. There are certainly shortcomings in that department.

Have you been able to identify any specific shortcomings?

Is it just a lack of training to help people at the beginning of the process, or is it just plain bad faith?

[Caroline Maynard]

I can't comment on that, but I can tell you that in terms of access to information, we certainly have found shortcomings in the information that has been provided to people who are applying for immigration or refugee status.

We are trying to work with the department to find easier ways for these people to access their personal information without having to go through the access to information system.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

I strongly encourage you to continue along these lines, because some situations are unfortunate. I have seen cases where files were delayed for six months to a year because a document was missing and had been misplaced by the department. Claimants had to send it again. In other cases, proof was required from the department, but it was in a document that was lost. The process is already lengthy. When you have to wait another year because a date, a certificate or some other paper is missing, it is very unfortunate.

Do you have anything to add about other shortcomings or areas of significant improvement?