Information & Ethics Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Mario Dion]

We had one investigator and one lawyer—Michael, who is here today. He played an extended role on this one, because Madame Richard was excluded from the file right on day one. I gave clear instructions that Martine Richard was not to be involved in this investigation. It was Marie-Josée Smith, Michael Aquilino and me, period.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Is Ms. Smith still employed in the office?

[Mario Dion]

Yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

She is.

You've said in interviews following your retirement, sir, that you, in the process, used 49 questions.

Is that the right number? Was it a list of 49 questions?

[Mario Dion]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I have no recollection whatsoever. I don't know. I have no idea where this comes from.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay. If I recall correctly, it was in a podcast in which you talked about your interview process. Maybe it was The Hill Times.

[Mario Dion]

That's not possible, Mr. Chair, because we don't have a standard interview format.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay.

[Mario Dion]

The way it works is this: Each time we have a witness, Marie-Josée prepares a draft. Michael reviews it and I review it. We follow the script. The commissioner is there to add or emphasize certain things, to ask questions that come up because of earlier answers, and so on and so forth. There is no—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

There's no form.

[Mario Dion]

—preordained form whatsoever.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

There's no form.

In the case of the “Trudeau II Report”, were you fully able to discharge your investigatory duties provided for by the act?

[Mario Dion]

No.

As I said in the report, Mr. Chairman, we tried to obtain further documents that were covered by the the cabinet confidence convention and we failed in doing so. I thought we had nevertheless enough material to come to a finding. That's why I proceeded, absent the documents that were missing. We still don't know what they contain.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Right, and that finding was that there had been a contravention of the Conflict of Interest Act. It had been broken by—

[Mario Dion]

It was a contravention of section 9 of the Conflict of Interest Act, as we refer to it, which was the scope of the investigation. I decided on my own volition, in light of what was in the media and what was being said elsewhere, to launch an investigation on February 8, 2019. The scope was section 9—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay.

[Mario Dion]

—and I found a contravention of section 9.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you very much, sir.

Commissioner, are you investigating any board members at Sustainable Development Technology Canada?

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

Are you talking to me?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Yes, sir.

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

I'm sorry. I thought you were still—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I just changed gears.

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

Can you repeat your question, please?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

With my last minute, I have a couple of quick questions for you.

Are you investigating any board members at Sustainable Development Technology Canada?

[Konrad von Finckenstein]

Yes.