Evidence of meeting #109 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
Again, the deputy heads of each department—the deputy ministers or the heads of organizations—are responsible for compliance with TBS guidelines, policies and directives. We as the Treasury Board make sure that we are in touch with departments to ensure that compliance.
Dominic, would you like to add anything?
Deputy Minister and Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you, Minister.
As I think I mentioned in one of the earlier answers, if there's an instance of non-compliance found by either the Privacy Commissioner or us, there can be inquiries done, questions asked and requirements for a department or agency to report further on mitigating factors in their annual report to follow up on that. In extreme cases, there can be a revocation of delegated authority, but I'm not aware of ever getting to that point.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
It's extremely important to have funding for officers of Parliament to do this work and hold government to account to ensure trust in our institutions. The Office of the Auditor General is a prime example. During the first year of the Harper government, the budget for this office was $78.6 million; during the last year, it was only $81 million. The current Leader of the Opposition was the minister responsible for safeguarding our democracy. He did not ensure that officers of Parliament were funded adequately.
Can you explain to the committee your thoughts on ensuring adequate funding to these institutions and how that's being taken into consideration now?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
Sure.
Obviously, in this spending review, what we are not aiming to do is reduce funding to key organizations, especially when that would impact services to Canadians and the protection of Canadians' interests. We take the protection of personal information extremely seriously, and I as minister do as well.
I will say, referring back to my colleague's question, that if he had analyzed my role, he would see that I signed no contract relating to ArriveCAN and he would also see, in the Auditor General's report, that the Auditor General highlighted CBSA, which is an organization within the Department of Public Safety, of which I was not the minister.
Once again, I think it's important to hold government to account, but to speak with truth and professionalism while doing so, rather presenting false allegations and conjecture.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Just on the analytics and findings, looking into the issues of non-compliance and having the ability to modernize new tools to get to the root of some of these non-compliance issues, how current are these tools, and when were they brought into government use?
Deputy Minister and Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'll try to quickly answer that question.
I don't believe that we're in a situation of non-compliance but in a situation of interpretation of the rules, and I think the minister has highlighted that we're going to be updating the directive on privacy impact assessments in order to be more specific, to clarify, and we'll make it better in terms of understanding when a PIA is actually required.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Bains and Mr. Rochon.
Minister, I want to thank you for appearing before committee today.
We are going to suspend for a couple of minutes so that we can prepare for the next panel.
The meeting is suspended. Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Welcome back, everyone, for our second hour.
I'd like to welcome now, as an individual, Monsieur Mario Dion, former conflict of interest and ethics commissioner. Welcome back, sir.
Also, from the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, we have Mr. Konrad van Finckenstein, who is the commissioner.
Before we go to opening statements, I have been asked by Monsieur Villemure for a few minutes near the end to discuss something, and I'm going to make sure that we grant that time. Is it regarding the social media study, Monsieur Villemure?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay. Merci.
Mr. Dion, you can start, please, for five minutes. Go ahead.
Mario Dion Former Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, As an Individual
In fact, Mr. Chair, we will be saving some time because I indicated to the clerk this morning that I did not have any opening remarks.
I will stop right there.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
You always impress me, Mr. Dion, with your succinctness. I appreciate that, sir.
Mr. Commissioner, do you have anything you would like to add?
Konrad von Finckenstein Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes. Thank you. I'll be equally succinct.
Thank you for inviting me today. I'll gladly answer your questions regarding any aspect of our work.
You understand that I wasn't in my current position when the “Trudeau II Report” was released, so I can't comment on it.
I brought with me today Mr. Michael Aquilino at the request of Mr. Dion. He can help him recollect some facts that, after five years, may not necessarily be in the mind of Mario right away.
That's all I have to say. Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.
We are going to start our first six-minute round with Mr. Barrett.
Go ahead, sir.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I'll start by saying this, Commissioner von Finckenstein: Congratulations on your appointment as our commissioner. That's new since the last of many frequent appearances you've made in the time between your taking on the interim role and today.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Thank you.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thank you for taking on the role. It's incredibly important. Canadians value the work done to ensure the highest ethical standard is maintained.
I'm going to start with you, Mr. Dion.
Thank you for joining us today, sir.
My question is of course about the “Trudeau II Report”.
How many people did you interview, and how many people made submissions to you?
Former Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, As an Individual
At the end of the report, on the last page.... Michael is finding it. If I recall correctly, we had 22 people we contacted for documents, and we interviewed seven. That's out of memory.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Of the 22, you interviewed seven. Would those seven have been, then, at the top of your list? Is that how you would characterize it?
Former Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, As an Individual
It's in the public domain, Mr. Chair.
We interviewed former minister Morneau; former minister Wilson-Raybould; Mathieu Bouchard, who was the senior adviser to the PM; Nathalie Drouin, deputy minister of justice; Elder Marques, senior adviser to the PM; and Michael Wernick, who was with you two days ago.
Of the other people with whom we communicated, we were satisfied that the documents they had forwarded were sufficient for us to understand their participation in the subject matter without having to interview them.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Mr. Wernick said that you personally interviewed him. Is that correct?
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Is that true for the other six people?
Former Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, As an Individual
Yes, it is. Throughout my tenure, I was present every time anybody was interviewed. This was Madame Dawson's practice as well. I simply followed the same practice.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
How many investigators did you have working on the file?
