Evidence of meeting #39 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was land.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you. I do not want to be rude, but the Information Commissioner told the committee that the government had more of a culture of secrecy than a desire to be open, so I understand a bit where that is going.
Mr. Proulx, in your opinion, and briefly—we have only two minutes left, when and why did the government conclude that the influx of asylum seekers was a pressing emergency?
Dan Proulx Executive Director, Information Sharing, Access to Information and Chief Privacy Office, Canada Border Services Agency
That question may not be for me.
Scott, maybe you want to take this one.
If it is a specific question relating to access to information, I will be happy to help you.
Scott Millar Vice-President, Strategic Policy Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes. Thank you.
When we process access to information requests along the lines laid out by my colleague, we look at all of the different exceptions under the Access to Information Act. In this case, with access to information requests related to Roxham Road, we consult with PSPC on amounts paid and look at the questions around economic interests of Canada.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I am talking about access to information, not about money.
Mr. Proulx, I will ask you the question again. Do you think that housing people in trailers surrounded by a fence is a pressing emergency? What is the pressing emergency that justifies not responding to the access to information request?
Executive Director, Information Sharing, Access to Information and Chief Privacy Office, Canada Border Services Agency
There is no correlation between the emergency in Lacolle and the access to information request. It is incorrect to think that we did not respond to the access to information request. A request has to be processed properly, and that takes the time it needs.
To explain the situation we were in from 2020 to 2022, coming out of a global pandemic, the number of access to information requests sent to the Canada Border Services Agency rose by 51%, for a total of 11,457 requests. Every day, I handle 6,000 access to information and privacy requests and I resolve over 100.
In the case you have raised, processing the request is independent of the emergency in Lacolle. That is why initially I did not understand your question correctly, and I apologize for that. The request is processed properly and takes its normal course, having regard to the consultations that are required.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Pat Kelly
I'm sorry, but we will have to end with that and go to Mr. Green for six minutes.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm going to go ahead, Mr. Chair, and pick up on this line of questioning.
I'm very interested in a September 27, 2022, Radio Canada article. Public Services and Procurement Canada stated that it entered into non-competitive contracts, given the national emergency due to the irregular arrival of a large number of asylum seekers. According to the Treasury Board's contracting policy notice 2007-4 on non-competitive contracting, a pressing emergency may involve the following:
a. an actual or imminent life-threatening situation
b. a disaster that endangers quality of life or safety of Canadians
c. a disaster that results in the loss of life
d. a disaster that results in significant loss or damage to Crown property
Which of these situations does the situation at Roxham Road fit into?
Lorenzo, if you could answer this, it would be great.
Lorenzo Ieraci Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for that question.
In response to the question, I'll have to get back to you on which specific element would have been used. The only thing I would clarify is that we are talking about leases and contracts, and they are two separate things. The exception, in terms of emergency provisions, would apply under the contracting side.
With regard to which contracts were awarded based on an emergency basis and what the rationale was, I'd have to come back to the committee on that.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Do you have the rationale, to my colleague's point, on when this was considered a national emergency?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Again, my colleagues from the procurement branch, because I'm not there anymore, would probably be able to provide you with more information, but for every file in which there is a national security exemption that is applied, the rationale is put on file.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
They would be on file.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Excellent.
I would ask this through you, Mr. Chair: Would you be willing to go ahead and submit those rationales to this committee for our consideration?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes. May I add just one more thing?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
In terms of the national security exemption, I want to clarify that this is in terms of the application of the trade agreements and the obligations that are identified therein. What a national security exemption basically does is allow the government to be able to undertake procurements on, for example, an expedited basis.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Sure. And the pressing emergency under the non-competitive contracting, you're saying, is separate from the leasing...?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That's correct.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay, but in your opinion, were you provided with a pressing emergency rationale that would be congruent with that contracting policy?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
If a contract was awarded on an emergency basis, yes, it would be.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
In your opinion, are the definitions of a pressing emergency sufficiently narrow to appropriately justify exemptions to Canada's competitive procurement requirements?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Is that with regard to the contracts that were awarded in this specific case?
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I mean generally speaking, and then you can provide specificity, sir.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm sorry. Could I ask you to re-ask the question?
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Are the definitions of a pressing emergency under the Treasury Board's contracting policy 2007 on non-competitive contracting...? When you invoke a pressing emergency, it would be different from a national emergency and given new parameters. Are the definitions clear enough so that your staff have the right guardrails in place to ensure that you're meeting the threshold?