Information & Ethics Committee on Dec. 14th, 2022

[Nicole Foster]

I understand that, but I would have to respect the confidentiality of the agreement that we have with the Government of Canada and wait for that disclosure to be requested through those channels.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Green, and thank you, Ms. Foster.

For the benefit of Mr. Green, we did invite others. Ms. Foster is the one who was put in front of the committee. I just want to make that clear.

I am going to now move to Mr. Kurek, I believe, for five minutes.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you, Ms. Foster, for your testimony here today.

Just as one quick, clarifying question to follow up on what Mr. Green suggested and some earlier answers, there's that secondary procurement trigger you talked about. I'm to understand from your testimony that it was not triggered in the case of the ArriveCAN services provided. Am I correct on that?

[Nicole Foster]

That would be my understanding, yes.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I think all members of this committee want to make sure we're getting answers about what took place around the $54 million that the government spent in large part on procuring services and different arrangements related to the ArriveCAN app. That's really, I think, the focus of why there are so many questions and, specifically related to this committee, some of the privacy concerns related to that.

I have a few more questions that we might get to, but in order to get some clarity around some of the issues that are left outstanding after the first few rounds of questions, Mr. Chair, I would move the following motion. It was just sent in both official languages, Madam Clerk, for those around the table who speak both languages. I will read the motion into the record in English. I'll spare you all my French.

The motion would be as follows:

That the committee order Amazon Web Services provide the committee a copy of all invoices, time sheets, reports, data usage, briefs and memoranda related to the development, implementation and maintenance of the ArriveCAN application; that this request include all cloud computing services, professional services, cybersecurity assessments and contact centres; that these documents be sent to the clerk within three weeks of the adoption of this motion; and that these documents be circulated to committee members and made available on the committee's website as soon as possible in both French and English.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Kurek.

I'm just going to confirm with the clerk that the motion has been passed on to other members of the committee in both official languages.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Kurek has moved this motion.

Ms. Foster, I'm going to ask you to just hang still for a second here.

Is there any discussion on the motion?

Go ahead, Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thanks so much, Chair.

I know I've said this so many times, and I just hate to be a broken record. It's kind of sucky to be taken by surprise in all of this.

I would ask your indulgence, perhaps, for me to take a read and look into the motion. I will ask, Chair, for your indulgence in suspending for about five to 10 minutes for us to be able to look at, review and see what exactly the motion is asking for at this point.

Again, Chair, it would not happen if we were not taken by surprise all the time in this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'll go to Mr. Barrett before I decide.

Maybe during Mr. Barrett's intervention you can find some time to look at the motion, so that we can deal with it.

Mr. Barrett, go ahead, please.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Chair, I was just going to say that the necessity for that information arose out of the testimony from the witness. There's ambiguity with respect to the information that different members have requested. That's why the motion was moved.

If Ms. Khalid or others need a couple of minutes to look at it, I think that's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Ms. Khalid, go ahead.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, it's just a point of clarification. I haven't looked at the text of the motion yet, so please excuse me if this sounds ignorant. I'm just wondering if all the documents being requested are in the control of AWS and whether there are any NDAs, etc.

I'm asking, ultimately, whether we are able to receive them by requesting them from AWS, or whether we need to request whatever documents the Conservatives want from other agencies.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's a fair question. I don't have an answer for that. I don't know how practical that is. We can deal only with the motion that's in front of us and the request by Mr. Kurek of the committee to have these documents produced.

If you need a little more time with this, let's look at two or three minutes, if we can. I want to continue. I don't want to hold Ms. Foster too long. I know more questions are likely going to come to her from the committee.

I'm going to suspend for two minutes while we look over this motion, and then we'll come back.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

We're going to resume the meeting.

We have a motion that was put on the floor by Mr. Kurek. Everyone has the motion. I'm looking at it. If this information, or some of it, cannot be provided to the committee, then I'm sure Amazon can provide so rationale or reason, if need be.

Is there any discussion on this motion?

Go ahead, Mr. Green. I see your hand.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

I move to adjourn the meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That is a non-debatable motion.

Madam Clerk, do you want to take a vote on that? The motion is to adjourn the meeting.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3)

Before we adjourn this meeting, I want to thank, on behalf of the committee, the clerk, analysts and technicians for the work they have done.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Ms. Foster, on behalf of the committee and Canadians, I want to thank you for making an appearance before the committee today.

I wish everyone a very merry Christmas. Happy holidays and happy Hanukkah.

The meeting is adjourned.