Evidence of meeting #56 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I concur, and I appreciate that.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Stewart, when did you become the deputy minister for international trade?
4:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It was in October of last year.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Okay. You said there were two sessions that were provided, for $23,000. Can you tell us how long each session was?
4:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
No. The contract was for two sessions, and it was $16,000, but I'm not sure how long the sessions were.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Can that information be provided to the committee?
4:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It would not be in our possession as a department, no.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Okay. That's something we're interested in knowing.
Last year, you were testifying about the implementation of the Emergencies Act, and you said that the Minister of Public Safety was misunderstood when he said in his comments that the police asked for the implementation of the Emergencies Act. That's something they deny.
The Ethics Commissioner says that Minister Ng has violated the ethics code. Do you think the Ethics Commissioner has misunderstood what the minister has done?
4:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Sir, I would suggest that that matter is a very tenuous reference, and I would not have any comment on it in this case.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
So you don't agree or disagree that Minister Ng was in violation of the Conflict of Interest Act.
February 7th, 2023 / 4:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It is not up to me to agree or disagree.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Okay.
There have been many less serious situations when ministers have stepped down. One that comes to mind when the Conservatives were in power was when one of our ministers had a $16—or maybe it was $18—orange juice. It was just about public perception and propriety.
Just from the nature of your comments so far, it doesn't seem that you have any thoughts about whether or not the minister should resign.
4:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, International Trade, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I don't have an answer to that question, sir.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
All right.
Since the ethics breach by the minister has come to light, Liberal minister Ahmed Hussen used $93,000 in constituency funds—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair, just on relevance.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I'm sure the member knows that there is some latitude given to members in their lines of questioning. It's their time.
Mr. Dalton, I would remind you that we are here to deal with the “Ng Report”. Please keep it relevant.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Yes, I believe it does tie in. Thank you.
This was a very similar situation, and I think it's very pertinent to what has happened here that $93,000 in constituency funds.... I will remind members that our budget is approximately $400,000, so it's a little less than a quarter of the budget, and I recognize that the Liberals find this a bit touchy—
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
A member's operating budget is a creature far removed from the issue that's being discussed here.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Fergus.
Again, stay on some relevance here, Mr. Dalton.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Yes, part of the relevance is that we're talking about social media, and this company, which provided services to the minister, had only one follower on Twitter and no posts on Instagram. It just seems like an in-and-out, just an opportunity for providing funds to friends.
This is what we're seeing across the board, and this is our concern. One of the reasons why we pushed for these meetings right here with Minister Ng is that this is not a one-off. This seems to be across the board. It's very concerning.
Right now, we've just unanimously passed a motion on looking into the contracts to McKinsey, for $100 million, so we seem to be in agreement that there are some problems—
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Again, Mr. Chair, there is literally no relevance to what my dear friend across the way is saying.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I appreciate the intervention, Ms. Khalid.
Mr. Dalton has the floor. He has the ability to bring this back, I hope, given that we are dealing with the “Ng Report”. I am going to give him some latitude here to bring this back very quickly.
We have multiple points of order. I've stopped your time, Mr. Dalton.
Go ahead, Mr. Green.