Evidence of meeting #67 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Matthew Green
Oh, oh!
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much for being before us today, Ms. Fournier. Your testimony has been really helpful.
I'm going to ask you a series of questions in a rather rapid-fire way. Please don't take it personally if I interject to take my time back and move on to the next question. I will ask you to answer questions to the best of your ability, as briefly as you can and as directly as you can, given the complexity of the situation.
I'm going to pick up where my friend from the Bloc left off.
You mentioned that you had raised some concerns internally with the board and that you wanted to flag them with the federal government and the CRA as per your obligations to ISED and the CRA.
Did you end up doing that? You sought legal advice, but it wasn't clear to me. Did you end up flagging those issues?
9:15 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
I actually never received the legal advice.
This is why we got to where we got and I resigned, along with eight board members. I wanted to get the legal advice, and I had six questions that I needed answered. One of those questions—
9:15 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
I have the email here that was sent to the executive committee at the time. It's a privileged and confidential email that was sent, with the lawyers being cc'd. I have outlined in that email the six questions I was asking—
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay, I'm going to interject now. I'm going to demand that you submit those letters to the committee.
I know that you are loyal to the board, given your confidentiality, but you do recognize the parliamentary privilege that we have, so I will request that you submit those documents to this committee. We will endeavour....
Mr. Chair, can I call a point of order on myself?
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay, if you could pause, I want to know if, within the context of this committee, I could request that these documents be viewed confidentially within the committee at a later date. To alleviate Ms. Fournier from her obligation, I would ask that those documents be submitted and that the committee review them in camera at a later date.
Is that okay, Mr. Chair?
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I'm going to go to the clerk on that one. If Madam Clerk could help us out, that would be great. Procedurally, Mr. Green, I can't answer that question. I'm just not aware of that.
Mr. Green, I've been advised that we can ask for those documents. It would be a motion of the committee to determine the undertaking of those documents.
Furthermore, to your point on the confidential nature, that would have to be part of the motion— for the committee to deal with those documents in a confidential manner, obviously to protect privilege, but also to make sure that the committee has everything it needs in order to determine....
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
In fairness to Ms. Fournier and understanding our parliamentary privilege, Mr. Chair, I'm going to request that those documents be submitted to the committee in an in camera fashion, in a confidential fashion, privileged to the committee. At a later date, perhaps, Mr. Chair, we can determine whether or not we want to make those public, but I'd like to move that motion right now.
Thank you.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Green.
I have stopped the time. The motion has been moved by Mr. Green for Madame Fournier to submit those documents so that the committee can deal with those documents on a confidential basis.
I have to deal with this right now.
Do I have consensus on the part of the committee to do so? I see consensus over here, and consensus over here.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I'm sorry, Chair. I agree with Mr. Green's motion, but can you clarify what the document request is?
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Mr. Green, perhaps you can clarify what....
I'm taking from Mr. Green that it's everything, perhaps, that Ms. Fournier has available to her that could be submitted to the committee.
Mr. Green, am I correct in that assumption?
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Then to be clear, Chair, that is consistent with what I had suggested in the first round—all the information that was germane. Would that be captured by this motion by Mr. Green?
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I expect it is. He's nodding his head. The only difference is—and this is where I need a clarification from the clerk—how we would dispose of that on a confidential basis. We would need a motion to deal with that confidentially, and for the undertaking of the documents. That's clear.
On the motion, I see Mr. Fergus's hand. I saw you nod with consent before. I assume that you're still in that space.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Mr. Chair, I think this is, of course, of interest to the committee. I would suggest, however, that we table this, allowing Mr. Green, perhaps when he's not on his questions, to consult with his research team, or with other members, to come up with the precise motion, and that we deal with it before the end of this meeting today.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I think there's willingness on the part of everybody for the committee to receive these documents on a confidential basis. That's what I'm sensing
Mr. Green, if you want to table this, are you okay with that?
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Sure, I'd be happy to. Yes.
I just want to get to the heart of the matter. I want to respect the witness's commitment to her board, and also the understanding of the constitutional nature of our parliamentary privilege.
I will proceed with my round. I think I'm at about two minutes right now.
9:20 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
May I just add one comment?
9:20 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
That's okay.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I'm sorry, Madame Fournier. We're going to continue with Mr. Green's line of questioning. Perhaps, at some point, if you want to make a point during your answer, you can do that, but please respect the member's ability to ask the question. Mr. Green has already stated that he's asking them in a pointed fashion for short responses.
Go ahead, Mr. Green. You have four minutes and 10 seconds left.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
Ms. Fournier, you mentioned that you had some tension at the board. We noted that you also mentioned that people left subsequent to that tension. You raised this issue. You certainly are a very learned academic expert in law, in constitutional matters, in board governance, yet there was friction with the board. With whom was the friction?