Evidence of meeting #10 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was brookfield.
A video is available from Parliament.
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
Right.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
That's right, so a public office holder then would have no awareness over the performance or even the composition of the assets that were in a blind trust, once that trust is established. Is that correct?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
Yes, but they would benefit from actions taken by others on their behalf in profits that might be derived into that in the blind trust.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Now, how would they know that if they didn't know what the composition of the blind trust was?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
I think there's an example here that is very relevant south of Canada with the situation of the Trump administration profiting from deals that are being constructed by his children. That's not a blind trust situation and a straight—
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
You understand the actual responsibilities of the trustee of a blind trust, which are the following: they have the fiduciary authority over the trust and the assets in that trust, to make changes to it, to sell those assets; and that a person who establishes a trust actually is prevented, under Canadian conflict of interest legislation, from providing direction to the trustee. Therefore, the public office holder who establishes the trust actually does not have control, has not provided any guidance to the trustee and has no awareness as to the composition of that trust following its establishment. You're aware of that, in the Canadian context?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
I am aware of that in the Canadian context. However, if you look at the case of big four accounting firms, which have also created legal situations in which information is not supposed to transfer from one part of the business to another, it has, and so I do think—
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Mr. Ward, what relevance does that have to the Canadian Conflict of Interest Act, which covers public office holders in the Canadian Parliament?
October 22nd, 2025 / 5:05 p.m.
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
It's a parallel situation in which rules that exist are abused because there's information transferred between a trustee—
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Is there an ethics commissioner who is governing private sector blind trusts, or whatever situation it is you're talking about in big accounting firms? Is there a publicly funded/determined ethics commissioner in office responsible for oversight in those cases?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
In some jurisdictions, yes.
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
I'm not familiar with Canadian law.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
No, there is not. There is no public ethics commissioner that oversees us. That is a role of Parliament.
When a public officer has a blind trust, is that public office holder shielded from tax for any gains or losses that may be incurred by the assets in that trust?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
Well, it depends how the investments in the blind trust are structured, doesn't it?
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Well, I think the answer there is no, that tax law actually applies to the assets that are controlled by a blind trust. It is the fiduciary, the trustee, in this case, that is actually responsible for the tax management of those assets. Is that not correct?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
There are huge numbers of loopholes in the tax law, which we've just been discussing, that allow individuals and corporations to significantly reduce their tax obligations under legal provisions in the law, which are clearly, in my view, immoral.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Mr. Ward, I'm sure that you can help me distinguish between general tax law and international tax law. What I'm asking you is this. For an individual who has assets in a blind trust, are those assets subject to tax law, yes or no?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
Of course they're subject to tax law—
Liberal
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
—but is the tax law an effective mechanism in order for them to pay the appropriate amount of tax?
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Mr. Ward, I don't want to seem too disagreeable with you, but I'm trying to draw a distinction. Are the concerns of an individual public office holder—a parliamentarian who puts their assets in a blind trust—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I'm sorry, Ms. Church, but I'm going to have to get you to wrap up. Make it a quick question, please.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
—for the purposes of being able to represent public office—different from the concerns of an individual, like you, who may have concerns about tax law generally? As parliamentarians, we can all accept that it is worthy of debate but it is a completely separate situation from what we're talking about here.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
We're 40 seconds over time.
Mr. Ward, I'm going to give you 10 seconds to respond, please.