Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 20th, 2025

[Marc-André Blanchard]

The chair of the board appoints the chief executive officer. The CEO is independent of the chair of the board, even though they are appointed by the chair.

In the context of enforcing the ethical wall, I maintain that I am independent of the Prime Minister. I must first respect my obligations to the office of Prime Minister of Canada.

[Gabriel Hardy, Conservative, Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC]

If we follow that logic, if Mr. Carney is not happy with a decision that's been made, he can fire you.

Isn't that right?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

My wife would probably be very happy about that.

[Gabriel Hardy, Conservative, Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC]

We've heard that kind of response before.

As you said earlier, we often look at things in the present moment. Right now, we're doing everything we can to ensure that Canadians are protected. We all demonstrate good moral character. Mr. Carney is setting the bar for himself on the strength of his good moral character.

However, the role of this committee is to look forward. We want to make sure that, in the future, our laws will be able to support people other than you, Mr. Sabia and Mr. Carney. We want to make sure that we plan well for the future and we have an effective structure.

We're often told that we need more people of Mr. Carney's stature. However, we also have to make sure that we don't attract the wrong people. Mr. Wernick told us that politics plays a very temporary role in someone's life.

For the first time in our history, we have a Prime Minister who comes from a private sector with many ramifications. We don't know how long he's going to be here, but certainly when he goes back to the private sector after being Prime Minister, he'll be able to use the position to his advantage. So our job is to make sure that isn't something we see often.

Do you think our current structure attracts only the right people, or are there so many gaps in our legislation that it also attracts the wrong people?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

First, your comment about the Prime Minister is unfair.

Mr. Carney was a member of the public service of Canada. He was governor of the Bank of Canada. He was the first non-British governor of the Bank of England. He spent most of his life in the public sector, much more so than in the private sector.

Mr. Carney has extensive experience in the public sector. It's true that he worked in the private sector recently. However, he spent far less time there than he has in the public sector.

[Gabriel Hardy, Conservative, Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC]

What difference does that make to the question I'm asking you?

What I'm saying is that I want to make sure that we attract the right people in the future. I'm not doing a full analysis of Mr. Carney. I want to make sure that the current structure is able to take in and, in a good way, monitor people who might one day intend to be prime minister, but have bad intentions.

Let's say the Prime Minister has the best intentions in the world. However, let's consider an ill-intentioned prime minister who makes his own rules, who can very well decide to dismiss people if he isn't happy.

Can the people be reassured in this context?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Hardy. Your time is up.

Mr. Baker, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here with us, Mr. Blanchard. I have several questions for you.

For the benefit of Canadians listening to us, can you explain the purpose of the conflict of interest screen and divestment? What are we looking to accomplish with these tools?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

What we're trying to do is quite simple. The idea is to proactively ensure that the Prime Minister of Canada doesn't end up in a conflict of interest.

Ethically speaking, it's one of the recognized best practices in Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, or OECD, countries. The practice has been used multiple times in the Government of Canada. Mr. Carney is getting the same treatment as several other politicians before him did in Canada. There's no difference.

The machinery of government has experience in dealing with this. For that reason, I believe our practice meets the highest standard when it comes to managing conflict of interest situations.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Is the practice that was put in place consistent with the Conflict of Interest Act?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

It meets the conditions of the act in every respect. What was implemented for Prime Minister Carney was agreed on with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, an officer of Parliament independent from political parties.

The current commissioner has a long history in the public sector. He has a very solid understanding of all arms and all parts of government. He agreed with Prime Minister Carney on measures to comply with both the letter and the spirit of the Conflict of Interest Act.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You just spoke about the Ethics Commissioner, and what I'm hearing you say is that he is very comfortable with the design of the screen, the design of the processes that you have in place—

[Marc-André Blanchard]

Yes, that is my understanding. On the screen, it's not only my understanding, but I actually know this because I was in discussion with him on this topic.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Is he comfortable with the implementation of the screen?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

As far as I know, he is comfortable with the implementation of the screen. As I said, his advice, the advice of his office, is sought along the way to make decisions in the matter of processing the application of the screen. This is no different from any other public office holders. Everybody is treated the same. Mr. Carney is treated the same as any other person who holds public office.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

That's a good segue to my next question. One of the members opposite, from the Conservative caucus, mentioned that the current law was actually brought in place at the time of Prime Minister Harper. In fact, during that time, there was a similar hearing with Mr. Nigel Wright, who was alluded to earlier in this hearing.

I want to cite some testimony from one of the Conservative MPs at the time in questioning Mr. Wright:

I just want to make a clarification, Mr. Chair, because there seems to be some misunderstanding in the way this has been debated by some members. On the term “private interest”, I will quote directly from the process for establishing a conflict of interest screen:

“Private interest” does not include an interest in a decision or a matter that is of a general application.

This Conservative MP believed that when there were decisions of a general application, private interest did not apply.

This MP went on to say the following:

And as such, we have to recognize that there are going to be people in this public service world who come from different backgrounds and who the government interacts with, obviously. But that is a strength for our country. We look forward to inviting people from various sectors, in this case the business sector, but from all sectors, to make a future contribution to our country.

Do you know who that member of Parliament was, Monsieur Blanchard?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

He sounds like a smart guy.

[Marc-André Blanchard]

I've read it. I believe it's Mr. Poilievre, the Leader of the Opposition.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

That's right. If the current Leader of the Opposition believed that the law and the screen were appropriate in the case of the Harper government, should it not be good enough in the case of the Carney government?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

I will leave it to parliamentarians to debate this.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay. I believe it is.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Baker and Mr. Blanchard.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Blanchard, at the end of my last intervention, I said the problem with your comparison to Mr. Wright was that Mr. Wright was not prime minister.

As I said earlier, my concern is to ensure that we have differentiated rules.

Don't you think that if someone is in the top position in government, that implies they maintain the highest level of transparency and always behave in the most exemplary manner?

I think you're going to say yes.

[Marc-André Blanchard]

That's why Prime Minister Carney agreed with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to take these steps. He divested himself of all his assets, put them in a blind trust and agreed to an ethical wall.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

He agreed to a screen.